Design Meeting notes (22nd March 2012)

[Reaper 392]

just spotted the new meeting chat. heres the chat in the proper order courtesy of textopus again

*edit*
you can also remove the "====...======" lines if you want to with textopus

use the filter lines tool, make "=====" your "needle", select "filter out lines which do not contain the needle and you're done

i've left the "===" lines in just in case you want to keep them
*/edit*

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22/03/2012 16:19 - Scott Coffey : First in. Everyone else must pay a late fee. I'll provide PayPal info later.
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22/03/2012 16:22 - ArkhamUK : lol im tapped sorry
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22/03/2012 16:24 - KAMPFBIBER81 : Hi guys
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22/03/2012 16:24 - Scott Coffey : I also accept all major credit cards.
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22/03/2012 16:25 - LuBu : Hello
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22/03/2012 16:25 - KAMPFBIBER81 : let us know you card number + pin and I will wire the money asap
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22/03/2012 16:26 - Scott Coffey : Will do.
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22/03/2012 16:26 - KAMPFBIBER81 :
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22/03/2012 16:27 - E.K. : hello
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22/03/2012 16:27 - E.K. : ah k, send it to me, Scott
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22/03/2012 16:28 - Scott Coffey : I'll just post the info on YouTube
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22/03/2012 16:29 - Scott Coffey : Wait E.K., you shouldn't need a credit card. Don't you have a pile of gold somewhere? :O
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22/03/2012 16:30 - mimaximax : Hello !
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22/03/2012 16:30 - Andy Tudor : Hey there everyone!
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22/03/2012 16:30 - E.K. : Haha, I'm not gonna tell that
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22/03/2012 16:30 - Thomas Taschler : Heyho
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22/03/2012 16:30 - Andy Tudor : Let's wait a few more mins for people to get in, then let's start
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22/03/2012 16:31 - Scott Coffey :
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22/03/2012 16:31 - ArkhamUK : Hi Andy
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22/03/2012 16:31 - Catflavor : Hi all
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22/03/2012 16:31 - Mike Laskey : yo
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22/03/2012 16:31 - Andy Garton : Hi all, now the latest chat is at the bottom but the input window is at the top! Fail.
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22/03/2012 16:31 - MacPhisto : Good Morning or Afternoon.
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22/03/2012 16:31 - ArkhamUK : lol yeah
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22/03/2012 16:32 - KAMPFBIBER81 : it's called optimizing...
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22/03/2012 16:32 - Andy Tudor : Welcome to all those staying up really late too for this :-)
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22/03/2012 16:32 - Scott Coffey : Smack dab in the middle of lunch for me.
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22/03/2012 16:33 - MacPhisto : The beauty of an intertnational effort.
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22/03/2012 16:33 - Casey Ringley : testing12 from tablet...go for interwebs
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22/03/2012 16:34 - Scott Coffey : iPad?
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22/03/2012 16:34 - Are Leistad : Hi folks
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22/03/2012 16:34 - Casey Ringley : transformer prime. it's nice.
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22/03/2012 16:35 - Scott Coffey : I've heard
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22/03/2012 16:35 - Rob Prange : hey guys
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22/03/2012 16:36 - Andy Tudor : k, let's get going then
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22/03/2012 16:36 - cornishbrooksy : good to be back! how long is this meeting...early startt tommorow!
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22/03/2012 16:36 - Andy Tudor : So yesterday we discussed quite a few things ranging from DLC to Career etc..
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22/03/2012 16:36 - Ralph Hummerich : hello everybody
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22/03/2012 16:37 - Andy Tudor : It was great to hear your thoughts etc.. and there's plenty there to discuss further as those areas get more defined and structured
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22/03/2012 16:37 - Andy Tudor : So today one of the hot topics is going to be the theme of 'playing together'
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22/03/2012 16:37 - Andy Garton : I have no friends though.
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22/03/2012 16:38 - Thomas Taschler : you have us ^^
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22/03/2012 16:39 - Andy Tudor : That means both playing together, against each other, or as a team
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22/03/2012 16:39 - mimaximax : It could be interesting to have the career mode linked in some way to multiplayer/social networking features
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22/03/2012 16:39 - JF Bouchard : hi all
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22/03/2012 16:39 - MacPhisto : Do you mean coop when you say playing together?
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22/03/2012 16:39 - Andy Tudor : Yup, exactly. So...
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22/03/2012 16:39 - Are Leistad : The team-bit is the new and revolutionary thing here, right?
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22/03/2012 16:40 - Andy Tudor : One of the ideas is to simulate the Driver #1/Driver #2 relationship by playing Career co-operatively with a friend
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22/03/2012 16:40 - mimaximax : So yesterday I had this idea :
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22/03/2012 16:40 - ArkhamUK : Well as much as i hate the buzz words social and network, the autolog like system works well. Personally my friends an i spend most of our time trying to do lap times rather than racing.
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22/03/2012 16:40 - Andy Tudor : If you don't have a friend, the AI will fill in
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22/03/2012 16:40 - KAMPFBIBER81 : we have a mp solution for hc-racers (league system, etc) what do we do for the more "casual gamer"?
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22/03/2012 16:40 - Roger Lee : hi
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22/03/2012 16:40 - MacPhisto : Like a spotter, crew member for the Nascar parts.
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22/03/2012 16:41 - Andy Tudor : So during Career, me and Joe Bloggs could race in a calendar event if we were online at the same time. Same as any co-op you might experience in any other game
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22/03/2012 16:41 - redman223 : I like the idea, but it would be nice if it could take place mid-season. If I remember correctly F1 2011 has something similar but you can't have a friend hop in during the middle of a season.
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22/03/2012 16:42 - redman223 : I think Gears of War was the first game I remember where the co-op and single player campaign worked together nicely. Usually it's either/or.
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22/03/2012 16:42 - mimaximax : sorry connexion lost
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22/03/2012 16:43 - Are Leistad : Will an online co-op career be in addition to off-line single player career. I.e. can you have both as separate game modes?
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22/03/2012 16:43 - Andy Garton : If I had a friend, I'd want to beat him though, not race with him.
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22/03/2012 16:43 - mimaximax : the idea was : Punctuals challenge opportunities, that let the player to skip some of the (boring ?) career steps ; a way to keep up with your friends' progression pace without downloading a game save. As in the motorsport world, being in the right place, on the right time and/or knowing the right guy can mean greater driving opportunities.
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22/03/2012 16:43 - ArkhamUK : I like the idea of friends joining my team in my career if connected
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22/03/2012 16:43 - E.K. :
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22/03/2012 16:44 - mimaximax : We could translate that into the game with something like : "Hey, Andy Garton talked me about you, saying you were a very promising driver. Would you mind having a test drive in our LMP2 prototype ? Beating his laptime is your chance to have a seat onboard".
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22/03/2012 16:44 - ArkhamUK : the option of friends to join rival teams would also be good
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22/03/2012 16:44 - Andy Tudor : You can do that too - versus play is pretty much a given. You'll always be able to play against others competitively
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22/03/2012 16:45 - ArkhamUK : during the career?
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22/03/2012 16:45 - Andy Tudor : Co-op in the Online area would be very much like MMO guild/clan management with virtual race teams being able to recruit members, arrange times to play, assign roles (the 'guy that does the setups', the 'livery creator', the 'pit chief', the 'team manager' etc..), and track stats
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22/03/2012 16:46 - Andy Garton : It works much much better for me online, pairs of friends racing against each other. Offline though ... not convinced it's worth the effort. (Need a poll.)
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22/03/2012 16:47 - Catflavor : It would be great if you be part of multiple co-op careers/clans/guilds concurrently. I'd like to race with Joe Bloggs, but sometimes he's away for a few weeks so I want to do a race or two with someone else. Otherwise its restrictive: something that you might never finish
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22/03/2012 16:47 - Andy Tudor : So you and your friends could have a team garage where your cars can be shared, a team bank for purchasing new items/entering events, and you'd be part of either a public league for all race teams, or you'd be able to make your own private leagues if you have another set of friends that you'd like to compete against regularly
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22/03/2012 16:47 - ArkhamUK : Do you think there is a away to blur the boundaries between "single player" element and "multiplayer" to make pCARS one "whole" experience?
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22/03/2012 16:47 - E.K. : If you are going to play with an AI buddy, how is this going to work? Take ADACS GT series i.e., 30 minutes driving yourself, 30 minutes the AI?
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22/03/2012 16:47 - redman223 : When you say offline, do you mean like a local versus mode?
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22/03/2012 16:48 - Andy Garton : Andy was suggesting it would be part of the offline career.
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22/03/2012 16:49 - Andy Tudor : @ArkhamUK, definitely. The ability to be playing 'offline' (ie.. in your single player career) but then see a friend pop online and pull him into your next Career event is neat
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22/03/2012 16:50 - ArkhamUK : yes that would be awesome like that
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22/03/2012 16:50 - Andy Tudor : There *are* online Career modes in some sports games but I would hazard a guess that a smaller proportion of the player base uses that feature (simply due to the necessity of being online at the same time as Catflavor said)
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22/03/2012 16:50 - Andy Tudor : When there was talk of portable/mobile support yesterday, you can see how this kind of team management would be ideal
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22/03/2012 16:51 - Andy Tudor : Ie.. an iOS notification that a teammate has tuned your car for a particular track, or a friend that is requesting whether you can attend a team race event organised for the weekend etc..
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22/03/2012 16:52 - Andy Garton : I'm not sure I can see really. Andy I think it's worth you posting up some notes of your team racing/management ideas. It's big work so we need to be sure the ROI is there.
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22/03/2012 16:52 - Mike Laskey : hey andy, why not just make the career mode multiplayer amongst friends, or maybe i misunderstood.
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22/03/2012 16:52 - Thomas Taschler : that would be very nice
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22/03/2012 16:53 - redman223 : I think it would be great to combine the single player career with online co-op, where you could take part in a buddy's race or they could do the same in your races, it would be lots of fun and will probably be copied by other games in the future. Nothing wrong with trendsetting.
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22/03/2012 16:53 - Mike Laskey : so if you are choosing to race your "offline" career, you still start a dedicated private server in the background (invisible to player); then your friend comes online and is wanting to join as driver #2 and he just enters the game
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22/03/2012 16:53 - Thomas Taschler : i mean the portable league management thing
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22/03/2012 16:53 - ArkhamUK : that sounds pretty cool.
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22/03/2012 16:53 - Mike Laskey : so it's offline/online just blended in
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22/03/2012 16:53 - Andy Tudor : @Mike - Yup exactly
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22/03/2012 16:55 - KAMPFBIBER81 : I like the MMO idea, but we should throw some more brain time in it, maybe this could become something very cool
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22/03/2012 16:55 - ArkhamUK : the blend would be good. Previous games all seem to separate the single and multiplayer (probably for technical or production reasons?) that tends to split the player base. be nice to have it so blured that every player falls into every part without feeling pushed.
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22/03/2012 16:55 - MacPhisto : So if you don't announce the single player career online than you can just play it alone as usual?
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22/03/2012 16:55 - Catflavor : yes i like the idea of friends as 'guest drivers' in your offline career
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22/03/2012 16:55 - LuBu : The Total War series already integrates multiplayer with single player, at key events (i.e battles) you can either play the AI or something callled a 'Drop in battle' against a random human opponent.
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22/03/2012 16:56 - ArkhamUK : to clarify, AI will be able to be put into online/offline as required?
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22/03/2012 16:56 - Andy Tudor : @MacPhisto - Yeah. Basically you could sit down to play your single player Career and each time you enter a race, others potentially could join you as a teammate or opponents
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22/03/2012 16:56 - MacPhisto : I think if it accomodated all types of racers in one package it would be groundbraking.
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22/03/2012 16:57 - mimaximax : ArkhamUK> I think my idea can help with this point
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22/03/2012 16:57 - Andy Tudor : @LuBu - Yeah, StreetFighter IV and Madden both do it too (known as "Player Broadcasting")
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22/03/2012 16:57 - Are Leistad : This combined on and off -line career is hard to imagine right now (no precedent) - but it sounds exciting. Will we also be able to have a completely separate offline career that we can play at our own pace?
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22/03/2012 16:57 - LuBu : This all needs to be optional though, don't want people coming in who you don't know and spoiling races, careers etc
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22/03/2012 16:57 - Andy Tudor : If you don't want others interfering with your game, you simply turn off the ability for people to join you in the options
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22/03/2012 16:58 - Andy Garton : How about people on your friends list being able to drop in to your career race and actually race against you? Might be annoying, I think I'd find it cool though.
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22/03/2012 16:58 - ArkhamUK : thats cool. kind of like test drive unlimited's angle only better
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22/03/2012 16:59 - MacPhisto : As I understand if it's done right you don't need a separate offline carreer, you just hide it from friends (as an option).
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22/03/2012 16:59 - Andy Tudor : @AndyG - Yup, potentially. Depends on what Anti-Griefing features are put in
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22/03/2012 16:59 - LuBu : I'm all for this idea personally.
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22/03/2012 16:59 - E.K. : Just for me to understand, Andy...i.e you enter a race, Mike sees you racing and can decide to hop in as an opponent or a team mate?
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22/03/2012 16:59 - Andy Tudor : Talking of which...
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22/03/2012 17:00 - ArkhamUK : if they are your friends (assuming we have any ) then it shouldnt be a problem? I assume you can simply unfriend or restrict block them on the fly?
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22/03/2012 17:00 - Andy Tudor : @EK - Yes (potentially as an opponent but definitely as a teammate if the event allows, like Formula series or GT etc..)
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22/03/2012 17:00 - mimaximax : turning off the ability for people to join your career mode in the options is cool I think
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22/03/2012 17:00 - Andy Garton : Yes E.K. Personally I'm less in favour of the team mate option (at least the two drivers per car variety) - team mates in two car teams could be fun.
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22/03/2012 17:00 - Catflavor : yes - anti grief, friends only. no player-player collisions
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22/03/2012 17:01 - E.K. : ok, got it
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22/03/2012 17:01 - ArkhamUK : imagine doing a 24hr race and handing over to another friend in another timezone ! Race around the world! lol
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22/03/2012 17:01 - Andy Tudor : So talking of griefing... let's talk about how to ensure you get a great race with like-minded people online
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22/03/2012 17:01 - Andy Garton : Isn't it a bit boring to sit watching your team mate drive for a few laps waiting for a turn Andy?
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22/03/2012 17:02 - Catflavor : of course, if you often race with AI on low difficulty, having a super-skilled friend beat the pants off you might be undesirable in your career...
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22/03/2012 17:02 - MacPhisto : Teammated have to be in separate cars in F1 but can be the same in 24H events (all optional)
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22/03/2012 17:02 - Thomas Taschler : this is how endurance races work @AndyG
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22/03/2012 17:02 - Mike Laskey : wrt waiting for yurn; endurance races; 24 hour stuff
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22/03/2012 17:03 - Mike Laskey : there are lot of people who like driver swap racing. could be interesting to run competitions of that nature
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22/03/2012 17:03 - ArkhamUK : Its that first lap thats tricky. I like all the collisions etc... but maybe a ghosting option for first lap or first cournerto allow the field to settle?
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22/03/2012 17:03 - Casey Ringley : Indeed. Joining as an opponent would be best bydefault. Sounds like a great idea with that tweak.
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22/03/2012 17:03 - Andy Tudor : Depends on the series of course (Formula would be simultaneous for instance) but it's a conscious decision of the player jumping in knowing that they may have to wait. They can watch the telemetry, talk Pit2Car, view the track up ahead, check the weather forecast in the meantime
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22/03/2012 17:04 - Andy Garton : porn in another window, endless options
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22/03/2012 17:04 - Are Leistad : @ Andy T : OK. But it might be fun to have an on/off -line co-op career, and at the same time have an old-school offline career. I.e. playing several careers in parallel without one of them "ruining" the other. Could be solved by having multiple game-saves, a bit like most FPS'es allow?
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22/03/2012 17:04 - Andy Tudor : lol
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22/03/2012 17:04 - mimaximax : lol
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22/03/2012 17:04 - Thomas Taschler : @casey i don't like that ghosting stuff while driving competitive
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22/03/2012 17:04 - Catflavor : perhaps it can be an option that any real person's result doesn't count in your season (it could be just for bragging rights and multiplayer stats)
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22/03/2012 17:05 - Casey Ringley : ghosting is crap, agreed
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22/03/2012 17:05 - Thomas Taschler : @arkhamuk sorry, missed the line @casey
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22/03/2012 17:06 - Andy Tudor : So in the past we've done a variety of things to try to get players 'match made' against others of similar experience using a fictional 'Driver Level' that loosely reflects how long you've been playing the game, Win/Loss ratio, # of Collisions, # of Disconnects etc.. Any ideas you guys have or anything you've seen elsewhere that might be a good addition?
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22/03/2012 17:06 - ArkhamUK : i think the addition of a great spectator system allowing lots of info and features is a good idea for people to watch with but thats probably another topic
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22/03/2012 17:06 - Andy Garton : That could work nicely Catflavor (nice name).
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22/03/2012 17:06 - ArkhamUK : LOL does that make this game an M rating then Andy?
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22/03/2012 17:07 - Thomas Taschler : @arkham spectator mode (i like that crowd member thing ^^), broadcast mode
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22/03/2012 17:07 - mimaximax : Career SP could be still available while career MP could be rewarded
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22/03/2012 17:07 - mimaximax : because of the risks you are taking
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22/03/2012 17:07 - Andy Garton : Loads of stats we can and should track Andy, average qual position, most positions gained during a race, number of fastest laps during a race, total overtakes (and being overtaken). All good data for that smart phone app.
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22/03/2012 17:08 - Andy Tudor : Yeah, great
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22/03/2012 17:08 - Andy Garton : (just a few examples)
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22/03/2012 17:08 - ArkhamUK : well the driver rating in iracing seems to work but im unsure what parameters we should use to determine that rating?
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22/03/2012 17:08 - Andy Tudor : How about the dreaded 'first corner'?
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22/03/2012 17:08 - Scott Coffey : I'm also a fan of broadcast races. I used to have a lot of fun spectating in deathmatch tournaments.
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22/03/2012 17:08 - Andy Garton : A simple overall driver rating is key imo, much more important than those detailed stats.
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22/03/2012 17:09 - MacPhisto : Are the stats going to be separated for online and off. because I can race and win all races against weak AI but loose all agains real people.
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22/03/2012 17:09 - ArkhamUK : oops sorry guys gotta shoot but great to chat, speak again later
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22/03/2012 17:09 - Casey Ringley : time off track could be a good metric
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22/03/2012 17:09 - Andy Garton : We surely need to do that offline "GPLRank" type rating also for lap times.
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22/03/2012 17:09 - Catflavor : maybe a the host can have a slider control that says drivers with x #collisions or below don't get included in collisions. Those with a good record get the right to exist and crash with me
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22/03/2012 17:09 - Are Leistad : Red Flag on excessive 1st corner carnage?
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22/03/2012 17:09 - Andy Tudor : Yup, so maybe collate all those relevant stats and they add up or take away from an overall 'Proficiency' rating
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22/03/2012 17:09 - Catflavor : (above, not below, sorry)
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22/03/2012 17:10 - Andy Garton : Correct MacPhisto - I was actually only thinking of online stats there, not nearly as interested in offline (but still worth tracking I guess as no extra work really).
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22/03/2012 17:10 - Thomas Taschler : @andyt you can hardly do anything against it. you can put in that "ghosting thing", but I would like to turn it of. thats where my server-side-demo/replay jumps in
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22/03/2012 17:10 - redman223 : Tracking the dreaded first corner would be nice, I would be much more careful if I knew it was being watched lol
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22/03/2012 17:10 - KAMPFBIBER81 : i like a the idea of a rating system, but it should not only be based on race penalties. It should also take in account clean overtaking, laps without penalties, etc
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22/03/2012 17:10 - Mike Laskey : it should be an overall driver rating calculated on leaderboard lap times, official race results etc but weighted for your CAR choice; that would define your grouping when matchmaking 1000 drivers into various servers, then somehow we do need to factor in a player's driving proficiency (how much time spent on verses off track)
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22/03/2012 17:11 - Andy Garton : Overall rating needs careful thought. Personally I would probably do it only on online race results - beating people higher ranked than you boosts you up quicker and vice versa.
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22/03/2012 17:11 - Mike Laskey : what i mean by car choice is i could be awesome in the kart but rubbish in FA.
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22/03/2012 17:11 - E.K. : @AndyT, real race drivers don't behave there, do we really need some system to eliminate people's impatience...is this even possible?
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22/03/2012 17:12 - Andy Tudor : @Mike - Yup, so by 'motorsports discipline'
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22/03/2012 17:12 - Andy Garton : Problem with using lots of variables imo Mike is that it becomes unclear what you need to do to increase your rating. Or indeed why you dropped.
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22/03/2012 17:12 - Andy Tudor : That would tie in nicely with yesterday's chat about how your driver would 'get noticed' by other teams to potentially go drive for them. Ie.. get your Offline GT2 Proficiency high enough and a GT1 team might want to hire you
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22/03/2012 17:13 - Mike Laskey : well it could be like chess ELO system when you race against other people. you win or lose points.
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22/03/2012 17:13 - MacPhisto : On the other hand more variables might give a better picture of a driver.
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22/03/2012 17:13 - Mike Laskey : however you would have a separate rating per car.
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22/03/2012 17:13 - Mike Laskey : i feel that is important and worth factoring in
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22/03/2012 17:14 - Andy Tudor : @MacPhisto - They'd be great stats to look at when potentially trying to recruit new team members for your Online Team too
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22/03/2012 17:14 - MacPhisto : Wanting to avoid the iRacing penalty system for crashes caused by others.
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22/03/2012 17:14 - Thomas Taschler : and viable in understandable form in your profile, if possible with charts and stuff
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22/03/2012 17:14 - Mike Laskey : it also lends itself to natural progression of your career; you become expert in one discipline but as you progress you borrow some of those points to the next level (ie you're not a beginner all over again but neither are you expect)
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22/03/2012 17:15 - Mike Laskey : expect/expert
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22/03/2012 17:15 - MacPhisto : I agree with the per car rating too as they are really different animals in this sim.
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22/03/2012 17:15 - Thomas Taschler : also make the rep comperable with others (damn is this chat slow at my end...)
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22/03/2012 17:16 - Mike Laskey : KAMPFBIBER81 raises a good point; can we somehow reward a player's GOOD behaviour
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22/03/2012 17:16 - Andy Tudor : OK, cool so it sounds like there's something worth pursuing here
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22/03/2012 17:16 - Andy Garton : FWIW I'm against per car rating, or at least we need an overall rating as well.
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22/03/2012 17:16 - LuBu : Bonuses for completing races without incident.. incentives
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22/03/2012 17:16 - Scott Coffey : I think maybe the chat refresh rate has been changed?
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22/03/2012 17:17 - Catflavor : I'd say an overall rating could be really handy, but being able to look at specific stats if you want to would be great for team recruiting. Per car and perhaps per track. I might be amazing in the Kart at Monza but be clueless at Hockenheim and so on...
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22/03/2012 17:17 - MacPhisto : Yes both if it's not too much work.
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22/03/2012 17:17 - KAMPFBIBER81 : as per car stats: if you're good in one car, this could boost your overall rating a bit to show it
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22/03/2012 17:17 - mimaximax : +1
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22/03/2012 17:18 - Thomas Taschler : @catflavor agree
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22/03/2012 17:18 - KAMPFBIBER81 : if someone searches a co-driver in the database
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22/03/2012 17:18 - Are Leistad : Re. LuBu's mention of incentives, will there be an in game economy, with winnings in online races?
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22/03/2012 17:19 - Thomas Taschler : it could show some sort of strenght-pentagon, if you know what i mean
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22/03/2012 17:20 - Andy Tudor : I would imagine there is some form of in-game economy but having said that, the traditional 'grind for cash' mentality may not be a focal point here if you're driving for an existing motorsports team
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22/03/2012 17:21 - Catflavor : Yeah, incentives sounds great. Exclusive badges on liveries showing achievements if you're safe in multiplayer, drive clean laps on a particular track. Give people a reason to drive well
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22/03/2012 17:21 - Casey Ringley : like picking co-drivers in Grid. that was nicely done
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22/03/2012 17:22 - Andy Tudor : How far would you guys like to take the team aspect? Do you want your career to ultimately end up in being able to own your own team/hire drivers/do research to make the car(s) better, pay entry to events etc..?
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22/03/2012 17:22 - MacPhisto : It seems like the focus should shift to experience, results stat instead of monetary economy.
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22/03/2012 17:22 - Andy Tudor : (talking about Career team management here, not your Online Team of friends)
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22/03/2012 17:22 - Are Leistad : Yes, absolutely NO need for grinding in pCARS please...
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22/03/2012 17:23 - Andy Garton : I should shut up I know but I'm not interested in teams in career, I just want to win for myself.
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22/03/2012 17:23 - redman223 : same here
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22/03/2012 17:23 - Catflavor : @Are agree - please no grind
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22/03/2012 17:23 - E.K. : I am not to fond of the managing part in a racing game, it about racing yoursel, with buddies, right?
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22/03/2012 17:24 - Scott Coffey : Regarding team/career... as long as that isn't the ultimate career goal. Some players would be put off by the team aspect and would want to complete a career solo.
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22/03/2012 17:24 - Andy Tudor : The analogy would be "Do you want to be a Player or a Player-Manager" in a soccer game
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22/03/2012 17:24 - KAMPFBIBER81 : what about a management DLC where you get those team boss features?
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22/03/2012 17:24 - mimaximax : So it might be up to the driver to choose the right strategy to climb to the top his own way
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22/03/2012 17:24 - E.K. : correct
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22/03/2012 17:24 - Thomas Taschler : i would personally like it, but I also know that I will not stay in the SP for long time ^^
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22/03/2012 17:24 - mimaximax : with opportunities, entering and living teams as he wishes
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22/03/2012 17:25 - MacPhisto : Management in DLC sounds better than in base release.
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22/03/2012 17:25 - Andy Tudor : Ie.. you get to drive the actual races yourself, but you do some behind-the-scenes stuff too to hire better AI drivers (if none of your friends are going to jump in) etc..
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22/03/2012 17:25 - mimaximax : leaving*
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22/03/2012 17:25 - Andy Garton : Proper team racing online is a nice win though imo, both multiple drivers per car and multiple cars per team.
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22/03/2012 17:26 - MacPhisto : How many race drivers in real life ending up owning a team? Maybe a lot, something to think about.
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22/03/2012 17:26 - redman223 : It seems like it woudl take alot of driving time away with micro managment. Similar to GT5's oil changes...
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22/03/2012 17:26 - Andy Garton : Leagues with team prizes as well as individual ones would be very cool.
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22/03/2012 17:26 - KAMPFBIBER81 : Management DLC for extended Team features maybe?
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22/03/2012 17:26 - Andy Tudor : k, so it sounds like it's not a killer feature , but something that could be expanded upon via DLC
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22/03/2012 17:26 - Mike Laskey : teams and leagues for teams would be great
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22/03/2012 17:27 - Andy Garton : I'd play the Alonso role in my team - fuck off out of my way.
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22/03/2012 17:27 - Andy Tudor : Let's talk about Leagues and Seasonal Events then...
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22/03/2012 17:27 - Are Leistad : Will we bring our own cars, shift/GT style, or can we pick any car of our choice, GTR style? I.e will we acquire cars in the game, which impiles a sort of economy?
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22/03/2012 17:27 - Mike Laskey :
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22/03/2012 17:27 - Mike Laskey : do we need to setup another meeting chaps? I'm out of time.
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22/03/2012 17:28 - Andy Tudor : Only this one last thing on my agenda
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22/03/2012 17:28 - Andy Garton : Let's stick to one hour per meeting so finish now please Andy. Knackered builds to fix etc.
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22/03/2012 17:29 - mimaximax : Is iOpener tech going into the game finally ?
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22/03/2012 17:29 - Thomas Taschler : @the grinding thing - In this case i would like it. You gain money to enter a certain race event and also practice. So you are prepared when you have the money for the event. Why not port the GT-Carrer (Sunday Cup, no car restrictions, no entry fee, small price money) over to the MP?
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22/03/2012 17:29 - Mike Laskey : k; will check log later for any updates.
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22/03/2012 17:29 - mimaximax : it could influence the way seasonal events can be made
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22/03/2012 17:29 - redman223 : I love the seasonal events in GT5, its really the only thing tying me to that game. I wish the challenges were tougher though, they had one or two but that was ahwile back.
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22/03/2012 17:29 - Andy Tudor : Okie-dokie. The chat log is gonna be long enough already I guess
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22/03/2012 17:29 - MacPhisto : The seasonal events ties in nicely with the ideas from yesterday. It would be managed from SMS side so it's unexpected.
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22/03/2012 17:30 - Andy Garton : iOpener is a definite possibility yes
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22/03/2012 17:30 - Andy Tudor : k, let's go over Seasonal content, leagues, community/weekly events, ongoing leagues/tournaments etc.. another day
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22/03/2012 17:30 - Andy Garton : Right I'm off guys thanks and good night.
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22/03/2012 17:30 - Andy Tudor : Cheers, thanks for attending everyone. Chat log will be posted up (in the right order) soon
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22/03/2012 17:30 - KAMPFBIBER81 : n8 guys
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22/03/2012 17:30 - Catflavor : ty all
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22/03/2012 17:30 - Scott Coffey : next meeting?
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22/03/2012 17:31 - Andy Tudor : Will post when a time has been arranged
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22/03/2012 17:31 - Are Leistad : See you all next time
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22/03/2012 17:31 - MacPhisto : Thanks for the opportunity to voice our opinions.
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22/03/2012 17:31 - Scott Coffey : k, later
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22/03/2012 17:31 - E.K. : Bye guys
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22/03/2012 17:31 - mimaximax : many thanks again
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22/03/2012 17:32 - mimaximax : bye
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22/03/2012 17:32 - Thomas Taschler : bye
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22/03/2012 17:32 - rocker_lx : interresting stuff thanks
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[Tedders]

I like all of the ideas, but I think its more key to make sure that most of them remain as options in a career mode, whether its online of offline. Give the player "opportunities" to get a teammate, or to own a team etc. They don't have to choose to do all this stuff but they can if they want. Or they can just remain a pure driver (which, given different opportunities could be solo or with a teammate...real or AI).

As long as people have options and they aren't forced into one arena or another, and those options work well, then I say go for it.

Also, DLC I think would prove to be a very good thing because you can implement pretty much anything you want after the game is released to take the series in new directions (new tracks, cars, career options etc). Just my 2 cents.

[DCLXVI]

24h Races
Anyone who loves racing sims, and hasnt been involved in a 24hr event is really missing something. They're fantastic, even if your not racing, and just have a personal investment in the result, they're great to follow. I used to run an LFS team, and there was a great endurance league in that which ran for about 5yrs, 4x 6h races, a 12h opener, and a 24h marathon towards the end. Get yourself into a good team and these sort of experiences are the stuff you'll remember for years, spending hours practicing with teammates, working towards a setup that everyone is happy with, then organising yourselves so your all available to race at certain times, have a backup driver on standby, a couple of drivers in a teamspeak (or similar) channel as your 'crew chief' letting your driver know whats going on, and the satisfaction of bringing the car home at the end. Its got to be the most fun you can have in sim-racing. All spread around the world, and connecting into the server just before the pit-stop and then do a 'digital handshake' to swap drivers over and off they go. I've done this with guys in the US, UK, various locations around Europe, and Australia, against teams also spread around the world (some just 1-2 nations), and they really separate the men from the boys. If theres a competitive racing element to pCARS, it'll want to do 24h races, even if 90% of people just want to win 20min long races on their own and win.

That would be a winner, that was what was missing from GTR² really. People are still making 24h hours races on GTR² (also on rF) in 2012. Of course this needs several servers and is a pain to organise but 24 hours racing it's an awesome experience.
If it is in the vanilla game, you sure have a winner for the hardcore crowd.

[Snarf_FU]

22/03/2012 17:19 - Thomas Taschler : it could show some sort of strenght-pentagon, if you know what i mean

+1 I think this would allow an overall rating with an easy way to see strengths and weakneses of other players.

[walsh_luke]

On the subject of money in careers, I think as many people have voiced opinion against it due to the grinding aspect it can have on certain games it would be good to have separate choices of careers. My idea is drawing inspiration from RD:Grid, Gran Turismo and iGP Manager mixed together.

Say you start off your career as a rookie. You have a kart as your first step and have to prove yourself in the lower ranks with competitive results. Every event that you enter has an entry fee that takes away from your budget which can be gained back through prize money. Through these results, teams from other leagues and competitions may recognise your talent and request you join them for an event and further on a seat for a full season, which could be ongoing at the same time as your funded competition as long as they don't overlap dates on the season calendar. If they do, the driver could have the option of choosing which race they want to do, affecting the likeliness the team that is using them will decide to use them again or keep them onboard. To race in higher tier competitons, the player must gain licenses through tests and then a purchase like is required for racing in FIA sanctioned events. As the player works their way through the career, the prize money can be put towards purchasing their own vehicles to be used in series where they can manage their co-driver/s, sponsors, staff, livery and possibly suppliers depending on the league type. The leagues will accept or decline the teams entry to the series based on the drivers history and experience levels e.g. time or amount of races spent racing certain vehicles. They can then purchase additional vehicles to be used in the same series alongside them with co-drivers or enter new leagues with other drivers to take a seat in if they wish e.g. Le Mans Series, the team owner could leave other drivers to do the whole season but could join them for a 12-hour race as 3rd man or race the whole season. The main aim is to win every high-tier championship with one of your teams, but would need to be made more difficult in terms of driving and management to make sure the career wouldn't be a weekend job as many racing careers in games are nowadays e.g. lapping the whole field in every race. Once this has been achieved, you could be entered into a hall of fame and be invited to special events like classic formula or something along those lines, just some of my thoughts

[C3PO]

Really looking forward to formal MP endurance race sessions and facilities like weather radar to complement the experience.

[Joeri Blootacker]

Been a while since the last design meeting,
any plan or date for the next one sheduled ?

not that i'm impatient, i just want to make sure that i don't miss the next one, even though i can only follow it live, and not participate. find them very usefull.

[STP GoGoGo]

lol, WTF Garton?

22/03/2012 16:37 - Andy Garton : I have no friends though.
...
22/03/2012 16:43 - Andy Garton : If I had a friend, I'd want to beat him though, not race with him.
...
22/03/2012 17:27 - Andy Garton : I'd play the Alonso role in my team - fuck off out of my way.

I hear Tring has a nice stuffed animal museum, may help with the stress relief.

+1 to the management DLC idea. Base game should focus on maximize my driving experience with my Sound card, GPU and G27.

He can be my team mate anytime hes nice like me before my first cup of coffee.

[miagi]

22/03/2012 17:11 - Andy Garton : Overall rating needs careful thought. Personally I would probably do it only on online race results - beating people higher ranked than you boosts you up quicker and vice versa.
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22/03/2012 17:13 - Mike Laskey : well it could be like chess ELO system when you race against other people. you win or lose points.

What Andy said there makes of course sense, but with "win or lose points" higher player will refuse to play against a lower-ranked player(well thats how its always is and was) so a nice cap for winning/losing points needs to be found.
I would like to see something like a 'risk setting' or 'risk slide control knob' a higher-ranked driver can set the risk lower toprotect him from losing to mutch points if he loses the race. Or he can max out the risk in order to earn some points against a lower-ranked player. If never seen something like that in a ladder but it could help to achieve more duels / to motivate higher-ranked player to not just refuse all lower-ranked race offers. Whether the risk setup shall effect the points the lower-ranked player could earn, or if the lower-ranked player can or can't see the 'risk setup' of his opponent can be discussed or just tested. Risk setup for player on the same lvl could also be interesting but its not necessary, you could unlock the risk setup if there is a 100, 150 or 200 points gap in the ELO Ladder

[The lower-ranked player dosn't need such a 'risk slide control knob' because he will anyway get lot points if he wins and will not lose mutch points if he loses.]

[Platinean Driver]

Read this interesting thread a bit late.

I'm not a big fan of racing in MP, but liked very much the idea of a single off/on-line career. That would prevent splitting the community and, in the contrary, should help to make it stronger and condenced if it's well implemented. The first thing it came to my mind was the problem that might generate the mismatching calendars among players/ career status. I think the calendar system is the core of this game, with the differents events depending on the player off-line progress. Then, the key question would be: How will the game manage the calendar system online? Each player will have his/her own calendar progress or should be a unique real-date calendar advancing in real time for all the community?

I think the solution to this problem (and perhaps others that I didn't mention) is a combination of the two, thanks to the posibility of multiple team owning in paralel of the pilot progression. (one team per tier or per discipline?) Then, the player can make that team enter in an event of his calendar or an online event, available to everyone to see. So, the calendar would show the different offline events depending of the each player progression as a driver AND a list showing the multiple online events where he can join with his team. In order to participate of online events, the team must have at least one human driver and, perhaps meet some requeriments. There should be some kind of award to the players AND the teams for safe/good/fast driving.

This system would allow many multiplayer options to kick in, deppending of my team and the event:

Single class events:

1 team. 1 car: a) You drive for your own team b) Friend racing for your team.
1 team. 2 cars: a) You and AI. b) You and friend (CO-OP) c) Friend and AI d) Friend1 and Friend2 (have to think deeper this one)

Multiclass events:

1 team.1 or 2 cars. Same options as above. In 24h events, single car: a) You and AI b) You and friend.
2 teams (one per class). Same options as above except that you can't drive for two teams in the same event, so the team that you don't drive should be run by a friend.


All this leads to team sharing among friends, depending of the number of cars of the team.

Regarding how online evets are established, perhaps it should be a general online calendar created and managed by SMS, progressing in real world time.

Progressing offline, and reaching the tiers as a pilot should be similar to getting a licence to create a team in the tier below. Completing online events with your team should affect somehow your off-line reputation, chance of getting new contracts, etc but that doesn't liberate you from your contracts with the off-line teams you are driving to. All this should be possible without in-game economy if there is a proper penalties/awards system.