Company structure changes coming soon.

[steventot]

what you're both really trying to determine is the E[units shipped] (or expected commercial success) by comparing it to other games.

steventot is putting forth the argument that it is not comparable to GT5/Forza since it is in the "sim" sub-genre of racing games and subsequently we should lower our expectations. (correct me if I'm wrong, that's what it sounds like from where I'm sitting)

bmanic is arguing that the GT5/Forza is actually the correct benchmark since pCARS will be roughly targeting that "more serious"/non-arcade console racing audience regardless of how we sub-classify the game. Therefore we should expect commercial success (units shipped) at the level of GT5/Forza.

I tend to agree with bmanic.

More or less.
My point is something like that , but generally not saying that those who bought GT5/Forza won't buy pCARS.
Maybe 50~60% of those players will get pCARS , or maybe they just use and try the "free pirated copy" (hello Xbox360) ,or maybe they just won't get it at all.
We should put our expectations really optimistic and lower a bit.We can't expect GT5 sales on day one , can we?
pCARS is an unknown to all console players (except those whom are here) , it needs time to get to the point ppl will actually get it.

And yes sir you are correct you can't really compare pCARS with GT5 or Forza.
Since pCars is targeted between GT5/Forza and iRacing/rFactor2 from the plan pdf.
That is an audience where noone stepped in on the console market.
That's the reason SMS is trying to do so.

We can't compete with Forza/GT5 for several reasons :
-those two have build their "brand" names during the years and they are supported by a large player base (90% of console players I know say either GT5 is the best or Forza is the best racing game)
-those games do support over 200+ cars each (which for casual players is one of the key aspects to look at)
-those games do support tuning of the cars (which is again a major popular feature amongst youngsters)
-those games also do have great graphics (where pCARS is maybe better looking but we can't actually say one is better than the other from casual players view)
-those games are supported, have many social features (autovista,photo share,livery sharing,.....)
-those games are specially developed for consoles (and only for consoles) which is a great plus for those teams (bug wise,support wise,DLC quick releases)...
-those games have all the major car "brands" a casual player would want to drive (ferrari,lamborghini,maserati,bugatti,....) , every youngster dreams about those cars
-because 70~80% of the console player base is younger than we are by 10 years minimum,they have different needs,different likes...
-and not the last they got loads of money to spend on their product and campaign/adverts!

So yes if we take it like this ,then I am damn right about what I say.
I am expecting huge sales for pCARS too,who doesn't want that from us here?
But we have to be careful at the same time , and keep our expectations in realistic manners.
If we can fight all the above with pCARS , then we can only win.
If we can't (at least 2 points) well then we might find a new type of audience and that will take some time to iron out for sure...
So yeah you can't compare the two ,even if its a sub genre we talk about!

And I would like to agree with Bmanic as well, but apparently my vision is not that "cheerful" or let's say promising.

[Steve Broca]

Steven, but that is saying that Forza/GT5 fans wouldn't buy any other racing game because they like those?

[steventot]

Steven, but that is saying that Forza/GT5 fans wouldn't buy any other racing game because they like those?

Well yes and yes , but I also stated those people might actually get it (but sure not all of them).
But before that they need to try it, to feel it which is another question.
The above comment or reply was just a pure business view , to understand the fact that to convince someone is wrong about the given project is damn hard....!
And a lot of those ppl will say that GT5 or Forza is best on each platform and nothing can beat it.
They will maybe put life on this statement, because they are so weak to see behind the lines...
Ppl tend to be stupid, ppl tend to fight for their rights.
Try to convince a GT5 fan that pCARS is better in any aspect, you will end up with arguing over each other but in the end he will not even try the game...
There will be only contra effect.

We need to gather all the knowledge, Michele's vision of ASIA and pump all this information very slowly into those players veins!
To let them understand the game,to let them feel it and then decide based on their own feelings ,if they want it or not.
This is a very hard road and I hope SMS will make it happen in the end.

[Steve Broca]

If reviews are good and what players say about it is good then people will want to try it. Seeing videos and screenshots on top of this should do it too.

[steventot]

If reviews are good and what players say about it is good then people will want to try it. Seeing videos and screenshots on top of this should do it too.

That is one of the ways to pump the information into those players veins

[Umer Ahmad]

Ppl tend to be stupid, ppl tend to fight for their rights.
Try to convince a GT5 fan that pCARS is better in any aspect, you will end up with arguing over each other but in the end he will not even try the game...There will be only contra effect.

I bring up the point of multiplayer again. If his friends start playing pCARS and discussing pCARS, he will be quickly convinced to also participate with them.

So we don't need to specifically target him, but we can target his friends and we will capture him easily. (Do I speak too much like Sun Tzu?)

[Steve Broca]

I can only see it as I am seeing it. How it is interesting me as a non car lover, a casual arcade gamer. That is what made me put money in.

[steventot]

I bring up the point of multiplayer again. If his friends start playing pCARS and discussing pCARS, he will be quickly convinced to also participate with them.

So we don't need to specifically target him, but we can target his friends and we will capture him easily. (Do I speak too much like Sun Tzu?)

But this also can easily fail.Many of my friends play different games.
They usually tend to play fewer games with me .
Yes there are some titles when we do get together and all enjoy it but those aren't racing titles that much as before.
And especially not the ones they drive off every corner because they drive too fast...

You might have friends who do actually play sim games with you but in my clear vision there is zero interest, and I have friends all across the world.
I am the only one from approx 200 friends who actually joined pCARS, which a bit saddens me.
And no they aren't 14y old, they are mostly my age or older and yes there are many from UK,US,all across the whole europe...
I have some new old chaps to get in touch with, maybe I will try to get them into pCARS , for some extra support.
We will see!

[Scott Coffey]

We can't compete with Forza/GT5 for several reasons :

From the Autosimsport interview with Ian Bell:

Autosimsport:

Do you see yourself in the same field as iRacing, ISI, and Simraceway--or are you playing on a different field altogether?

Ian:

We're a more realistic GT5 and Forza4 for the masses and multiplatform.

Take from that what you may. I read it as, Ian wants to compete with Forza/GT5.

[Steve Broca]

And especially not the ones they drive off every corner because they drive too fast...

In all honesty, that is how I felt with the Shift series, I wanted to love it because it looked great but like you say, I went off at every corner and didn't feel like I wanted to spend the time learning, I was used to unreal arcade games.
With pCARS I felt differently and the 600mhz change has pushed that even further, infact the first night of playing this build I played for nearly 5 hours grinning my face off at how fkin great it felt! How that translates into a controller will be the major factor.