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View Full Version : Design Meeting notes (21st March 2012)



Vittorio Rapa
21-03-2012, 17:39
Highlights from today's Design meeting included discussion around:

- The high-end goal for the title
- Cross-platform play
- Upgrades
- Dyno Rolling Road
- Ovals
- Country Roads
- The 'X Statement'
- Disciplines ideal for DLC
- Scenario Mode
- Career structure
- Mobile/portable support
- Team features



Meeting transcriptions attached (both .txt and .xml versions).
Enjoy the reading.

(Note the chat is reversed, so you should read it starting from the bottom)

21/03/2012 18:31 - Andreas Moll : cu

21/03/2012 18:31 - Ivo Franic : Cya

21/03/2012 18:31 - Andy Tudor : Bye all!

21/03/2012 18:31 - Are Leistad : Thanks everyone - that was interesting :-)

21/03/2012 18:31 - Thomas Taschler : thanks :)

21/03/2012 18:31 - Sven Moll : demo must be protected please...so nobody can steal meshes or texturemaps

21/03/2012 18:30 - Scott Coffey : thanks!

21/03/2012 18:30 - Andy Garton : I can't make 4.30 tomorrow so have fun chaps and I'll enjoy the log.

21/03/2012 18:30 - Ian Bell : Times up, bye all :)

21/03/2012 18:30 - Roger Lee : 24

21/03/2012 18:30 - Ian Bell : Next meeting same time tomorrow. thanks for your time everyone. We got through quite a few more points than i expected we would. I think this worked nicely.

21/03/2012 18:30 - Roger Lee : not a one hour limit, like 25 hours

21/03/2012 18:30 - Ged Keaveney : Console demo would be further down the road, not in the short term.

21/03/2012 18:30 - Andy Tudor : Chat Log can be saved, yes

21/03/2012 18:30 - cornishbrooksy : Thank you! I feel like i contributed with rolling road! haha

21/03/2012 18:30 - linfosoma : Thanks for having us guys.

21/03/2012 18:29 - Ian Bell : We'll post the chat to the forum right away

21/03/2012 18:29 - Are Leistad : I'm fine with no upgrades, but it has very wide appeal, esp. on consoles.

21/03/2012 18:29 - Roger Lee : had fun

21/03/2012 18:29 - Scott Coffey : And when is next meeting?

21/03/2012 18:29 - Micas : thx for the meeting.. this was fun

21/03/2012 18:29 - Scott Coffey : Is there a way to preserve a chat log here, or will this be posted?

21/03/2012 18:29 - Micas : Andy G had suggested a full featured, time limited, demo.. which I agree with

21/03/2012 18:29 - E.K. : FFB and physics on the same level as graphics

21/03/2012 18:29 - Ian Bell : We'll pick off unresolved issues tomorrow

21/03/2012 18:29 - Ian Bell : 1 minute warning chaps.

21/03/2012 18:28 - Scott Coffey : Once we get the physics nailed down, a small demo would be awesome

21/03/2012 18:28 - Are Leistad : I did post an idea on how to automatically benchmark/classify (upgradeable) cars by way of a behind the scenes "AI" test regime.

21/03/2012 18:27 - Ian Bell : We should definitely have a demo Ged yes.

21/03/2012 18:27 - Micas : I'm okay with not having upgrades or visual upgrades.. I rather like the idea of uniformity in multiplayer

21/03/2012 18:27 - Ged Keaveney : Upgrades are a pain from a tech point of view too (mainly consoles) take up lots of memory and are slow to load as we can't package them for optimal loading easily. I'd rather avoid them.

21/03/2012 18:27 - Andy Tudor : Agree on the rolling road - should be part of your Tuning area, and a dedicated area you can drive up to on the Test Track

21/03/2012 18:27 - Ian Bell : Let's say no upgrades then, more cars

21/03/2012 18:27 - Ged Keaveney : maybe a daft idea but what about a cut down 1 track/vehicle demo, especially on consoles on Live/PSN so that people can see the game in action and the handling too. Similar to the GT5 prologue. Whip up some excitement the project and show it as a proper contender. Also will stop people thinking about Shift.

21/03/2012 18:26 - Andy Tudor : I'm indifferent about upgrades. They're a good idea and give you micro-transactions to purchase in between the big car purchases so you get regular feedback that you're progressing (which is nice). But ultimately it turns into a grind for cash, and multiplayer simply becomes "Who spent the most" as opposed to an equal playing field where it's about driver skill and tuning ability

21/03/2012 18:26 - Ian Bell : I think we might get away with 8 or so for a season, 3 being 'derivatives'

21/03/2012 18:26 - Roger Lee : I've been an oval sim racer for 10 years and a 100% iRacing member. I would like to help with this design path.

21/03/2012 18:26 - Tim Mann : see the dyno output on the rolling road

21/03/2012 18:26 - JF Bouchard : I agree with Casey. Visual upgrades really require a lot of ressources.

21/03/2012 18:26 - Ivo Franic : agreed Casey, visual upgrades and mechanical upgrades complicate the whole thing. The cars will al be very different already, we aren't making a car collecting game like Forza or GT5

21/03/2012 18:26 - cornishbrooksy : its a simple thing...but gives the user a feeling of control

21/03/2012 18:26 - Ian Bell : On ovals, I think we need 5 minimum to cover all types

21/03/2012 18:25 - Andy Garton : Actually I love that rolling road idea - if we could make it work properly, so you're actually driving the car on the rollers. Would be a fun way to benchmark cars.

21/03/2012 18:25 - Scott Coffey : Zero? :)

21/03/2012 18:25 - Ralph Hummerich : Agreed with Casey here

21/03/2012 18:25 - Roger Lee : How many ovals are you guys planning. And what types?

21/03/2012 18:25 - Casey Ringley : Would love to have no visual upgrades. If we can get away with that it would allow us to focus much more clearly on regular car production

21/03/2012 18:24 - Scott Coffey : Good idea Andy T... my thoughts exactly

21/03/2012 18:24 - cornishbrooksy : rolling road...and controlling the car on it...i dont know why, but id find it enjoyable

21/03/2012 18:24 - Roger Lee : Ben's feedback thread should be released with the game to show people how pCARS got where it is physics wise.

21/03/2012 18:24 - Are Leistad : @ Mike Laskey : make production cars w/upgrades a racing class of it's own?

21/03/2012 18:24 - Micas : upgrades force you to put a rating number on a car, as in shift 2, in order to try and equalize for multiplayer

21/03/2012 18:23 - Andy Tudor : Would be nice to add more (snowy mountain passes, just-outside-of-the-city canyons etc..) so two in the base pack and more afterwards at regular intervals would be okay

21/03/2012 18:23 - Andy Garton : Probably not too expensive Micas but I'd like to see us hook up with somebody like Jim Russel - get real instructors to script/narrate/guide.

21/03/2012 18:23 - Casey Ringley : perhaps some real world setup aids. Shaker table for tuning suspension, aero map output from wind tunnels

21/03/2012 18:23 - Graham Hawkins : +1 for really good Driving school

21/03/2012 18:23 - Scott Coffey : Good point Mike

21/03/2012 18:23 - Ian Bell : Mike, I'd say no upgrades to give us time to put more cars in

21/03/2012 18:22 - Ian Bell : Micas, no, we can make use of Ben here

21/03/2012 18:22 - Mike Laskey : i'm not sure about upgrades; if done at simulator fidelity it will lead to far more complexity in the racing, vehicle management, car setups, league administration, event config and so on

21/03/2012 18:22 - LuBu : Yes, upgrades are a cornerstone of the console games, customisation is everywhere

21/03/2012 18:22 - Micas : Is Ben too expensive to record for driving school

21/03/2012 18:22 - Roger Lee : no upgrades!!

21/03/2012 18:22 - Ged Keaveney : but also focus on the physics and handling. A lot of press are seeing the graphics then raving about that and not getting to the best bits.

21/03/2012 18:22 - Ivo Franic : keepcomparing and bringing that up, the the consoles dont look like the screenshot/renders

21/03/2012 18:21 - Andy Tudor : Personally, the coastal roads are a nice diversion. They're so pretty that they feel like rewards in themselves; somewhere I can 'drive' as opposed to 'race' so I'd have them unlocked via your Career (or purchasable ahead of time from the in-game Store)

21/03/2012 18:21 - Andy Garton : Racing drivers school done well would be in for me.

21/03/2012 18:21 - Ivo Franic : exactly Rob

21/03/2012 18:21 - Are Leistad : It's almost a sub game in itself.

21/03/2012 18:21 - Robert Dibley : we really need to get over to people that it is that beautiful when they play as well, not like certain other games, where its only looking that good when in photo mode

21/03/2012 18:21 - Kevin Boland : Friends as you pit crew.. they can read your telemetry and recommend adjustments

21/03/2012 18:21 - Scott Coffey : I like the idea of upgrades

21/03/2012 18:21 - Are Leistad : Yeah, upgrades for production cars - it'

21/03/2012 18:20 - Ged Keaveney : != means "not equal to" for any non-coder types out there (not a coder meeting rob :))

21/03/2012 18:20 - linfosoma : No upgrades, too much work, little payoff

21/03/2012 18:20 - Scott Coffey : I like Thomas's idea too. I would LOVE to see some "professionall" announced race events.

21/03/2012 18:20 - Casey Ringley : AudoX track creator with a marketplace for sharing plus leaderboards. :)

21/03/2012 18:20 - Andy Tudor : Would be fine on Kinect - works well in other games

21/03/2012 18:20 - Ian Bell : On production cars, do we allow upgrades or not???

21/03/2012 18:20 - Ian Bell : I think pit to car with some limited voice recognition could be fun

21/03/2012 18:20 - cornishbrooksy : at the end of the day graphics sell, its what people "see" first. we have that now...its beautiful

21/03/2012 18:19 - Robert Dibley : Bike physics != car physics, lots of strange differences

21/03/2012 18:19 - Roger Lee : yes voice recognition along with the pit2car!!

21/03/2012 18:19 - Thomas Taschler : server side recorded demo/replay of the whole race, being played and recorded on a poweful home pc, change player/camera...

21/03/2012 18:19 - Are Leistad : Ahh, good point Ian - don't really know. Maybe one or two in the base game as an appetizer?

21/03/2012 18:19 - Graham Hawkins : I liked the simulated 'Trackday' idea that was floated on the forum at some point. Multiplayer run what you brung chill out time.

21/03/2012 18:19 - Ian Bell : Brooksy, lots of production cars on teh way

21/03/2012 18:19 - Roger Lee : How hard would Bikes be to implement?

21/03/2012 18:18 - Micas : oh.. and another plug for voice recognition while I'm thinking about it

21/03/2012 18:18 - Scott Coffey : Every "review" done so far has pointed out our superior graphics, so I figure that sells itself. We should promote other areas of uniqueness.

21/03/2012 18:18 - Ian Bell : My feeling is we should have 2 in teh initial release as teasers

21/03/2012 18:18 - Roger Lee : @Andy :a18:

21/03/2012 18:18 - Ian Bell : Are, on top of teh two going in or do we pull those off to DMC?

21/03/2012 18:18 - cornishbrooksy : what is the view on production cars?

21/03/2012 18:18 - Sven Moll : get in superbike perhaps?

21/03/2012 18:18 - Are Leistad : For the brainstorming thing: Country Roads DLC with productions cars bundle

21/03/2012 18:17 - Ian Bell : Yes T, if it's called out with pt to car radio all the better

21/03/2012 18:17 - Micas : from an organizational point of view, I think just start with Andy Tudor's ideas and hammer it out from there

21/03/2012 18:17 - Kevin Boland : race commentary

21/03/2012 18:17 - linfosoma : Managing a team would be fun, sponsors, team mates, that sort of thing

21/03/2012 18:17 - Mark Adams : "Pushing the boundries" & "beyond Limits"

21/03/2012 18:17 - Andy Tudor : I think when you combine tire wear/fuel, dynamic localised weather, pit stops, and Pit2Car audio you've got a very special experience there

21/03/2012 18:16 - Ian Bell : throw in any brainstorm ideas you have now

21/03/2012 18:16 - Andy Garton : pit stops ... yaaaaaawn :)

21/03/2012 18:16 - Ian Bell : OK guys,w e have 14 minutes left

21/03/2012 18:16 - Roger Lee : yes multiplayer needs to be solid with minimal lag.

21/03/2012 18:15 - E.K. : true

21/03/2012 18:15 - Scott Coffey : Project CARS... reality squared :)

21/03/2012 18:15 - Thomas Taschler : the multiplayer is very important

21/03/2012 18:15 - Roger Lee : I think the pitstops alone will put it over the top. I've been waiting so long for that to be done right in a sim.

21/03/2012 18:15 - Andy Garton : just don't mention we have to cut it all on console :)

21/03/2012 18:15 - Are Leistad : I like the sound of the "legend" thing for a compelling single player /gaming/ experience.

21/03/2012 18:14 - Dave Flynn : *behind

21/03/2012 18:14 - Andy Garton : That's a good point Andy, the under body detailing definitely needs shouting about.

21/03/2012 18:14 - Micas : speaking of checking off the tick boxes.. how much effort do you put behind a focus on meta scores?

21/03/2012 18:14 - Dave Flynn : "Your life beind the wheel" is another marketing phrae?

21/03/2012 18:14 - JF Bouchard : motorsport legend?

21/03/2012 18:14 - Roger Lee : I like the racing legend thing

21/03/2012 18:14 - Andy Tudor : We'll never win the "Number of cars in the box" war so we have to go beyond that. The INSANE amount of detail in everything (from the Leonus' exhausts to the new lighting) is one area to focus on and market

21/03/2012 18:13 - Ian Bell : Become a Racing Legend. Let's use that for now guys, it's strong IMO

21/03/2012 18:13 - cornishbrooksy : im vaaauuggghhnnn gitttttiiinnn junior....

21/03/2012 18:13 - Are Leistad : @ Micas - get in line :-))

21/03/2012 18:13 - Andy Tudor : Because in a side-by-side comparison unfortunately people are literally going to be checking boxes... "Does Game A have this feature compared to Project CASRS?" In the Overview, we do

21/03/2012 18:12 - Dave Flynn : Agreed on the 'become a legend' being a good way to put things :)

21/03/2012 18:12 - Micas : I wanted to punch that chubby "pro drifter" after the first few races

21/03/2012 18:12 - Andy Garton : If you said that to them Andy they'd probably do a cough which sounded like "bullshit" :)

21/03/2012 18:12 - Andy Garton : It's a good one to throw open to the member base imo to get some brainstorming ideas going. (The X I mean.)

21/03/2012 18:11 - Micas : good sub-title as well that

21/03/2012 18:11 - Andy Tudor : So if you were to describe the game to someone you could simply say "It's got everything the competition has, and more. It's the ultimate package."

21/03/2012 18:11 - Andy Garton : It's not bad Andy, but not fab either imo. I have nothing better yet though.

21/03/2012 18:11 - Micas : yes on the ultimate driver journey.. exactly what I want

21/03/2012 18:11 - Ian Bell : become a racing legend

21/03/2012 18:11 - Stuart Hunt : One of the problems with drifting is that we had Pro drifters help tune it to a level where they thought it was realistic, and people still said it was totally unrealistic

21/03/2012 18:11 - Ian Bell : BEcome a legend is a much more exciting way of putting it

21/03/2012 18:11 - Ian Bell : I like the drivers journey thing

21/03/2012 18:11 - Scott Coffey : I rather like the "become a legend" concept from the original design write-up... expand on that somehow?

21/03/2012 18:10 - JF Bouchard : I would be in favor of focusing on more traditional series and forms of motorsport and keeping the niche stuff as DLC or a practice mode (in basic form, not a full series)

21/03/2012 18:10 - Andy Garton : Seriously, the X is a tricky one. The basics are that we're making the most accurate looking, sounding and driving racing sim. It has crazy levels of detail (marbles, leaves, all that shit), as well as great online play. Features like awesome pit to car, race engineers, etc also. None of that is an elevator pitch though.

21/03/2012 18:10 - Ian Bell : Let's make that call unless there are any severe objections

21/03/2012 18:10 - Andy Tudor : Currently the X is: "The Ultimate Driver Journey" which corresponds to the game having the 1) Ultimate content (ie.. a huge variety of racing series), 2) Ultimate features (ie.. everything from dynamic time of day/weather to pitstops to team management etc..) and 3) the Ultimate career allowing you to either concentrate on one thing or progress through the ranks

21/03/2012 18:10 - Ian Bell : Agreed Casey

21/03/2012 18:10 - Casey Ringley : Drift scoring as DLC makes good sense. Anyone can screw about drifting cars in other game modes for fun, but doing the judging, tandem, etc is enough to justify DLC

21/03/2012 18:10 - linfosoma : I'll take that as a no then :p

21/03/2012 18:09 - Kytt : Rallycross is like appetizer and get people excited.

21/03/2012 18:09 - Ian Bell : elevator pitch

21/03/2012 18:09 - Ian Bell : Mr T

21/03/2012 18:09 - E.K. : Just taking Codemasters as an example I am not sure if it would be a good idea to put all different racing types into one package, even though through DLCs

21/03/2012 18:09 - Scott Coffey : marketing isn't your forte?

21/03/2012 18:09 - Roger Lee : I don't do drifting so I don't really care if its in or not. I don't believe it has all that big of following.

21/03/2012 18:08 - Mike Laskey : drifting is an abomination of motorsport (imo!)

21/03/2012 18:08 - Ian Bell : but maybe not good for a poster outside schools

21/03/2012 18:08 - Ian Bell : great one Andy

21/03/2012 18:08 - Ian Bell : With drift, my feeling is allow it as an option within the main game, in testing etc

21/03/2012 18:08 - Andy Garton : Project CARS - it's fucking ace.

21/03/2012 18:08 - Ian Bell : I don't like drift at all myself

21/03/2012 18:08 - Scott Coffey : lol micas

21/03/2012 18:08 - Carborati : Combined tarmac and gravel :)

21/03/2012 18:08 - cornishbrooksy : Gymkhana would go with drifting maybe....it would be good as DLC, def riding the Ken Block wave of popularity

21/03/2012 18:08 - Ian Bell : Brainstorm on the elevator pitch please. The 'X'.

21/03/2012 18:08 - Scott Coffey : I'm ambivilent about drift, but I doubt it would cost much to include it...

21/03/2012 18:08 - Micas : drifting is so niche.. I personally loathe it

21/03/2012 18:07 - Kytt : Hello everyone. Most important is that rally is coming, there are people waiting for it

21/03/2012 18:07 - Ian Bell : OK, let's discuss rallycross tomorrow.

21/03/2012 18:07 - Andy Garton : drifting has broad appeal? My arse (edit that bit Vitt).

21/03/2012 18:07 - Graham Hawkins : Everyone will love rallycross since its been on TG!

21/03/2012 18:07 - Roger Lee : Rally is very poplular, it just needs to be done right all the way thru

21/03/2012 18:07 - LuBu : SuperGT?

21/03/2012 18:07 - linfosoma : I would really like it if drifting could make it into the game, there's pretty much zero competition and it has broad appeal.

21/03/2012 18:07 - Carborati : How about making both rally and rally cross? Rally cross is a load of fun :)

21/03/2012 18:07 - Are Leistad : Rallycross is huge fun - I think the format would be popular!

21/03/2012 18:07 - Micas : I just want to feel like I'm a driver in a real car.. at a real track..with a real crew.. and real consquences

21/03/2012 18:07 - Andy Tudor : Drift/Gymkhana would be another discipline to move to DLC also

21/03/2012 18:06 - Rob Prange : seems to be hugely popular

21/03/2012 18:06 - Mark Adams : would be a litmus test as DLC doing rallycross

21/03/2012 18:06 - Rob Prange : how about that Ghymkana (sp) stuff for consoles?

21/03/2012 18:06 - Roger Lee : Whatever series we do they need the proper quality and polish

21/03/2012 18:06 - cornishbrooksy : Rallycross will have a relatively small market i feel

21/03/2012 18:06 - Mark Adams : was just about to say the same thing Mr G

21/03/2012 18:06 - Ian Bell : And more suited to a DLC

21/03/2012 18:06 - Ian Bell : AndyG, good suggestion. rallycross would be ace fun

21/03/2012 18:05 - Roger Lee : Thanks Thomas will look at

21/03/2012 18:05 - Andy Garton : I would do rallycross as DLC, rally needs a game on its own imo.

21/03/2012 18:05 - Ian Bell : Do any of the other proposed series stand out as something to cut or DLC? Are we missing any series we really should have??

21/03/2012 18:04 - Andy Garton : Plus time is up :)

21/03/2012 18:04 - Robert Dibley : "half baked rally is worse than no rally" - I totally agree - mind you the same goes for pretty much anything

21/03/2012 18:04 - Ian Bell : OK, Rally to DLC for now. We should look into design 3 months before ship of pCARs

21/03/2012 18:04 - D.man : Is current engine able to give us realistic rally racing? If not then just forget it for now

21/03/2012 18:04 - Thomas Taschler : @roger check your pms :)

21/03/2012 18:04 - Andy Tudor : I think Rally is a nice evolution of other racing disciplines but is worthy of its own DLC/expansion pack definitely

21/03/2012 18:04 - Andy Garton : We're not deciding anything here afaik, just discussing.

21/03/2012 18:03 - Micas : like @AT's suggestion

21/03/2012 18:03 - Graham Hawkins : DLC

21/03/2012 18:03 - Andreas Moll : then I mean

21/03/2012 18:03 - Andreas Moll : hen DLC

21/03/2012 18:03 - Andreas Moll : maybe make one or 2 track part of the base game

21/03/2012 18:03 - E.K. : Hi, I am late and DLC

21/03/2012 18:03 - Andy Tudor : I hope the player experience would be as such: You choose from one of three Career starting points (Kart/Touring/Drift/Formula Renault etc..) and then have a calendar to work through like FIFA. You can accept/reject offers to switch to another team or even discipline (ie.. you're in GT2 and a GT1 team wants you to drive for them), or stay where you were and continually try to win the championship each year.

21/03/2012 18:02 - Micas : oh dear.. this is going on the forum.. whoops!

21/03/2012 18:02 - Ralph Hummerich : DLC or a "spin off" brand

21/03/2012 18:02 - Ivo Franic : or a separate title

21/03/2012 18:02 - Micas : I think if we decide to cut rally in this meeting, the unwashed masses will be upset.. :)

21/03/2012 18:02 - Are Leistad : Yes, rally as DLC sounds good - or even a sparate game/upgrade. A half baked rally is worse than no rally.

21/03/2012 18:02 - Robert Dibley : can I have a 3rd option, separate product using the same engine

21/03/2012 18:02 - Ivo Franic : Rally cut until we can do it properly

21/03/2012 18:02 - Mike Laskey : agreed on rally, big enough to be separate game

21/03/2012 18:02 - Sven Moll : vote from me, Rally would be interesting. Though difficult to get the physics right

21/03/2012 18:02 - Thomas Taschler : DLC

21/03/2012 18:02 - LuBu : DLC

21/03/2012 18:02 - Andy Garton : Regarding "whiff of arcade" - I know what you mean Micas, but at some point we have to start letting that smell in a little, especially on console. Just because we have gameplay features that you can't necessarily do in real life doesn't mean it's not a sim - the events would still be in perfectly modelled (physically and graphically) real cars on real tracks.

21/03/2012 18:02 - Scott Coffey : I don't see it as either/or :)

21/03/2012 18:02 - cornishbrooksy : DLC rally, would be amazing to have it in with the CARS graphics and physics

21/03/2012 18:02 - Casey Ringley : Agreed, Jan. Cut rally to be its own game

21/03/2012 18:01 - Roger Lee : Never heard of that Thomas

21/03/2012 18:01 - Rob Prange : definetely DLC, would sell masses I think.. so many people craving for a good rally title

21/03/2012 18:01 - Ged Keaveney : I think the idea of it being a separate game has mileage, we've got no problems with the amount of content, let's get some mileage out of it, create a secondary brand with it too

21/03/2012 18:01 - Robert Dibley : yup, much as I enjoy rally games, I do think rally is different enough to warrant splitting it out

21/03/2012 18:01 - Ian Bell : Rally DLC or Cut, vote now :)

21/03/2012 18:01 - Thomas Taschler : @roger something like GT Academy?

21/03/2012 18:01 - cornishbrooksy : Im not speaking about tech as such...but time to develop...a large range of tracks and having more than a couple of cars for each series...this will take a lot of time to produce the material surely

21/03/2012 18:01 - Jan Frischkorn : or we would have to cut things from standard racing

21/03/2012 18:01 - Ian Bell : Yes Rob, and for something like a notLemans we can get away with just a few car variations

21/03/2012 18:00 - Jan Frischkorn : rally is something completely different with so many extras. i agree that it should be DLC or cut

21/03/2012 18:00 - Micas : agree, leave rally out of base game.. think about it later as DLC or just cut

21/03/2012 18:00 - Scott Coffey : I agree with rally as DLC

21/03/2012 18:00 - Roger Lee : We could all relate to that!!

21/03/2012 18:00 - Roger Lee : This may sound dumb, but how about a career that is an expansion of the Greger Huttu experience. A publicity stunt that turns sim racer into real racer?

21/03/2012 18:00 - Robert Dibley : The deciding factor for what is realistic in this case would be manpower to produce all the required locations and vehicles - code side requires very little to support many different series types

21/03/2012 18:00 - Ian Bell : Brooksy, Yes,w ith our tech we can handle it

21/03/2012 18:00 - Are Leistad : I agree on the sentiments w.r.t. karts - whatever you do, make sure nobody get stuck in, and put off by, the kart career.

21/03/2012 18:00 - Andy Tudor : (Will add to the Overview though)

21/03/2012 17:59 - Andy Garton : If we do it better, with more variety (which doesn't mean more content, just better selected), it could be a winner still.

21/03/2012 17:59 - Ian Bell : Thoughts??

21/03/2012 17:59 - Ian Bell : Scott, on rally I think we should do it as a DLC, or cut it. Or do it as a separate game. We'll have a ton of content already

21/03/2012 17:59 - Scott Coffey : I would ask the same question as cornishbrooky

21/03/2012 17:59 - Micas : scenarios have the wiff of "arcade" to it

21/03/2012 17:59 - Andy Tudor : I've mentioned Scenario Mode on the forum already - would be similar to Fight Night where you're placed into specific scenarios from the past to re-play them. Would be a separate mode from the main game though

21/03/2012 17:59 - Ged Keaveney : Agree with Rob for the same reasons, helps progression at different skill levels

21/03/2012 17:59 - Mike Laskey : we can run official race series (sponsored by companies perhaps) for players to build their confidence, move forward in their racing 'career' and advance their reputation

21/03/2012 17:59 - Scott Coffey : Are we still planning on doing rally? Because that seems like a fairly big departure from where we are thus far

21/03/2012 17:59 - Andy Garton : I don't dislike it at all, just not grabbing me - Codemasters have done that for all their recent games really.

21/03/2012 17:58 - cornishbrooksy : Is it realistic to have this vast range of series though?

21/03/2012 17:58 - Ian Bell : AndyT, add that in please

21/03/2012 17:58 - linfosoma : Toca 3 had a fantastic career, I would love to see you guys build up on something like that.

21/03/2012 17:58 - Ian Bell : Andy, agree on scenarios

21/03/2012 17:58 - Robert Dibley : I think the series of series approach is good, my particular preference is that it allows me to choose to focus on a particular area, or develop gradually, as I seem to need a lot of practice.

21/03/2012 17:58 - Ian Bell : Yes, for starter, maybe also a Mini Cooper challenge

21/03/2012 17:57 - Andy Garton : It's not the full career, but I'd love to see a scenario mode - preset race (or indeed qual) setups where you get dropped in to the car and have to achieve something, ranging from taking Eau Rouge flat to winning LeMans.

21/03/2012 17:57 - Ian Bell : Mikes mentioning social with other terms Andy

21/03/2012 17:57 - Roger Lee : Yes, I don't like karts we need an alternate starting series.

21/03/2012 17:57 - Thomas Taschler : or seat cup, "slow" cars

21/03/2012 17:57 - Ian Bell : I think it's time for it to be revived with proper quality

21/03/2012 17:57 - Mike Laskey : for me it's all about leagues, friends, leagues battling each other and scheduling those challenges

21/03/2012 17:57 - cornishbrooksy : variety is key

21/03/2012 17:57 - Ian Bell : I disagree Andy. It was done in Toca way back but I had to listen to some annoying Scottish bloke

21/03/2012 17:57 - Rob Prange : it's the natural way a racing career works in the real life...moving up through the ranks...so it makes sense I think

21/03/2012 17:57 - Micas : not sure what else you can do but series of series on a racing game.. unless it's like just rally or something like that

21/03/2012 17:56 - Andy Garton : Just feels like it's been done a thousand times before (perhaps because it's good :) ).

21/03/2012 17:56 - Ian Bell : Scott, agreed on teh karts, we should have something like a formula ford/renault as an optional starter and karts as optional trainers IMO

21/03/2012 17:56 - LuBu : Yes... just have to make use of the cars that will make it into the game, something that GT lacks IMO.

21/03/2012 17:56 - Andy Tudor : Multiple series means you can specialise in something you really love (but someone else may be indifferent to) and also gives plenty of variety and replay ability in the game. By incorporating multiple series too, it expands the potential appeal for players beyond competitive titles

21/03/2012 17:56 - Casey Ringley : I think we miss out a bit on the grassroots level with the current series of series setup.

21/03/2012 17:56 - Graham Hawkins : A series of series providing there is choice and not linearity within it, and nothing is compulsory. Hi BTW.

21/03/2012 17:56 - linfosoma : I would love a racing series, but I think it should have a structure, PC racing sims really lack in any sort of offline career features.

21/03/2012 17:56 - Micas : @AG, what would be exciting?

21/03/2012 17:55 - Ian Bell : What's not exciting, how do we improve it Andy?

21/03/2012 17:55 - Scott Coffey : I would only suggest that we make it fairly easy to get out of the initial "kart" series. My gut feeling is that they won't be very popular.

21/03/2012 17:55 - FcZenitFan : Yes

21/03/2012 17:55 - Are Leistad : @ Andy Garton - yes, differentiation on platforms (more stuff on PC) is fine since there will be no cross platform play anyway.

21/03/2012 17:55 - Thomas Taschler : the more options the better

21/03/2012 17:55 - cornishbrooksy : yes, i like this progression feeling. obviously would be great if we could get some licensed stuff in, F3, or V8 supercars, or so on, but realistically it wont all be licesensed (F1 for example)

21/03/2012 17:55 - Roger Lee : Yes to series

21/03/2012 17:55 - Andy Garton : Series of series isn't exciting me. Perhaps it's the base to build on though.

21/03/2012 17:55 - Micas : series of series.. yes.. trying to model real series would be great, with the ability to scale time/length, etc. I hate 3 laps races, but others might want that.. scale for all options

21/03/2012 17:54 - Thomas Taschler : yes to the series thing :)

21/03/2012 17:54 - Ian Bell : Yes/No/Explain

21/03/2012 17:53 - Roger Lee : So we could do a Porche then, rename it to something cool, change a few things and slap some fake decals on it. I'm all for that. Remember rFactor originally had made up cars and tracks.

21/03/2012 17:53 - Ian Bell : The current design as a series of series, are we all happy with this??

21/03/2012 17:53 - Ian Bell : Anyway, let's focus guys

21/03/2012 17:53 - Andy Garton : I'd like to see us make a commitment up front also that the game design will necessarily vary per platform. There's tons we can do on PC that we can't do on console. Big publishers tend to accept defeat on PC versions and just say they won't make money so let's just do a console port. I think a top notch PC online focused racing sim CAN make money.

21/03/2012 17:52 - cornishbrooksy : i could see that being a BIG feature

21/03/2012 17:52 - Ian Bell : the legal definition is this. For anything that is a fixed structure, we can replicate it exactly and only the name needs changing if they've trademarked it. If it's a movable item then we need to make three changes to the shape and rename it.

21/03/2012 17:52 - Ged Keaveney : telemetry/setup stuff to muck about with whilst you're on the train to work in the morning would be good on smart phones.

21/03/2012 17:51 - Mike Laskey : yup people enjoy managing their league, profile , scheduling races and so on from mobile

21/03/2012 17:51 - Rob Prange : and telemetry/data display functionality

21/03/2012 17:51 - Ian Bell : Roger

21/03/2012 17:51 - Andy Garton : :) Not running it on a phone Micas, running live telemetry on the phone screen, lap times, engineer chat, blah blah, potential is endless.

21/03/2012 17:51 - Thomas Taschler : the racing community I am part of is crying for a GT2 car (*hint* porsche *hint)

21/03/2012 17:51 - FcZenitFan : not the game, app support of course

21/03/2012 17:51 - Ian Bell : but things like leaderboards, setup analysis, maybe replays ghosts etc

21/03/2012 17:51 - cornishbrooksy : maybe not the game running on the phone...but a supplementary app...telemetry display, that kind of thing

21/03/2012 17:51 - Ian Bell : The game doesn't need to be on the phone

21/03/2012 17:50 - Roger Lee : Back to GT cars. Is it legal to recreate a Corvette model and name it something else?

21/03/2012 17:50 - Ian Bell : Yes, there's easy money there and I think we can add functionality that justifies it

21/03/2012 17:50 - Micas : I can't imagine it running on a phone

21/03/2012 17:50 - Rob Prange : I agree, those 3rd party apps & tools for other sims on iOS & Android devices are hugely popular..there's definetely demand

21/03/2012 17:50 - linfosoma : Thanks for that, GFWL is the worst.

21/03/2012 17:49 - Andy Tudor : lol

21/03/2012 17:49 - FcZenitFan : Yeah, Android and iOS support would be good!

21/03/2012 17:49 - Roger Lee : yes andy especially smart phones

21/03/2012 17:49 - Ian Bell : We really don't want to go Windows live so I'd remove cross PC Xbox from the list also

21/03/2012 17:49 - Andy Garton : Can we ban the words "network" and "social" from the game design please Andy? :)

21/03/2012 17:48 - Andy Garton : I'd also like us to major on third party device and software support, including mobile devices. None of the mass market games have done that well yet.

21/03/2012 17:48 - Andy Tudor : @Micas - Part of the social network planned will allow you to manage teammates, recruit new ones, schedule upcoming events, see member activity etc..

21/03/2012 17:48 - cornishbrooksy : 720.....interesting

21/03/2012 17:48 - Ged Keaveney : yep 1st party server features are very limited

21/03/2012 17:48 - Scott Coffey : It would be nice to know which cars/tracks are prohibitively expensive, so we can get that out in the open

21/03/2012 17:48 - Micas : lol 720.. smells NDA issues

21/03/2012 17:48 - Andy Garton : I think cross platform racing would be a bit of a disaster anyway. Different audiences.

21/03/2012 17:47 - Mike Laskey : if we want on xbox any similar experience to PC then we will need XLSP servers - otherwise xbox multiplayer will be as simple as any other xbox title

21/03/2012 17:47 - Ian Bell : We can't discuss those things Kevin!

21/03/2012 17:47 - Micas : just being able to schedule races in advance will be a big deal

21/03/2012 17:47 - Ian Bell : You can't race cross 1st party platform

21/03/2012 17:47 - Kevin Boland : have we got any 720 kits yet ?

21/03/2012 17:46 - Roger Lee : I just hear it on the forum Andy. I'm not sure they would need to be licensed, but obviously that would be ideal.

21/03/2012 17:46 - Andy Garton : I think we need a bit of a reboot on licensing also. So far it has been a bit hit and miss. We need to come up with a focused design that includes a wish list of the cars and tracks we need, then approach them. We've done it the other way round so far.

21/03/2012 17:46 - D.man : I think crossplatform racing is one of those things which can make CARS the best

21/03/2012 17:46 - Mike Laskey : Consoles are weak traditionally because of cross-compatibility of the server side.

21/03/2012 17:46 - Ian Bell : Agree re. online Andy. We can take a lot of cues from iRacing here

21/03/2012 17:45 - Andy Tudor : Roger - do you mean officially-licensed GT cars?

21/03/2012 17:45 - Ian Bell : Yes Roger. On pits I want not only amazing pitstops which constitute both a break in the action but also are exciting on their own terms. Race engineer screaming at you over the headset, you can see him animated (in both senses of the word) outside of the window. I also want amazing pit to car audio.

21/03/2012 17:45 - Thomas Taschler : also common cars would pull in more casual players

21/03/2012 17:45 - Andy Garton : I think online has to be a big focus. Forza and GT5 are basically weak in those areas. A more organised system that lets people have properly organised, safe races, yet which isn't so complex and rule heavy as iRacing, would be a winner imo.

21/03/2012 17:45 - Roger Lee : There seems to be a lot of complaints about the lack of "proper" GT cars. Is there anything in the potential pipeline to appease this crowd?

21/03/2012 17:45 - cornishbrooksy : I think its having the accessability to all, with the option to make it for the truely hardcore

21/03/2012 17:45 - Micas : It could get confusing it we just shout out ideas.. there should be some organization.. a high level goal/overview that gets divided into branches and iterated on

21/03/2012 17:44 - Vittorio Rapa : (Service Message: this chat/conversation will be published on the forum later today, so you may review it)

21/03/2012 17:44 - Andy Tudor : So there's a huge opportunity there to 1) Unite the PC audience with a title that really excels (which I believe we're doing), 2) Be THE racing game on Wii U, and 3) Give console players a viable alternative to their racing game of choice (and get the competition worried!)

21/03/2012 17:44 - Casey Ringley : The AutoX track creator idea is one idea I think could put us well ahead of the competition.

21/03/2012 17:44 - Scott Coffey : I feel the "country roads" concept is a step in the right direction for pulling in more casual players

21/03/2012 17:43 - Ian Bell : linfosoma, please get yourself another name :) But no, that's why we're here, to decide these things

21/03/2012 17:43 - Roger Lee : I'm excited to see what the pitstops will be like. The pitcrew is looking mighty fine!!

21/03/2012 17:43 - linfosoma : Hi guys, I just got one question: Do we have a confirmation of which racing modes are making it to the release and which ones are going to be DLC?

21/03/2012 17:43 - Ian Bell : We want to be 'best' in certain defined ways. So having the best graphics/physics/audio etc is a given and we need to aim for that. We also need to aim for the masses and beat GT5 and Forza 4. How do we do that in terms of features is the question.

21/03/2012 17:43 - Andy Tudor : On PC there are number of games that each have a their dedicated audience, and obviously on the Wii U there are no competitors currently

21/03/2012 17:42 - Andy Tudor : (despite our own beliefs ;))

21/03/2012 17:42 - Are Leistad : Present and eager to see what comes of this first meeting :)

21/03/2012 17:42 - Andy Tudor : There are other games on 360/PS3 that are obviously seen as being the 'leaders' out there

21/03/2012 17:42 - Micas : With things nobody has ever seen before.

21/03/2012 17:41 - JF Bouchard : *waves*

21/03/2012 17:41 - Andy Tudor : Yup, so the end goal is obviously to be the best racing game out there, right?

21/03/2012 17:40 - Roger Lee : the chat I mean

21/03/2012 17:40 - Ian Bell : The current intention and I suppose 'X' for the game is a series of racing series. We need to spice that up into an elevator pitch Andy, something more exciting. Then let's pull off 3 key tenets/differentiators/USPs

21/03/2012 17:40 - Rob Prange : Seniors can read

21/03/2012 17:40 - Rob Prange : Managers & Senior Managers can chat

21/03/2012 17:40 - Andy Tudor : I think we're talking about the same thing then... ie.. us all here could be part of the same team and race other teams, with some form of online tracker keeping tabs over time of the best teams and who won individual races

21/03/2012 17:40 - Roger Lee : which levels can participate in this?

21/03/2012 17:39 - Carborati : Hi eveyone :)

21/03/2012 17:39 - Ian Bell : Anyway, let's kick off. Have we all ready the WMD side design overview?

21/03/2012 17:39 - D.man : Can somebody give me fast setup for FA? It's damn hard to drive now :)

21/03/2012 17:39 - Ged Keaveney : exposure via scripting is what I'd like to do, depends how many configurable aspects of the setup there are but I think we should be able to do something

21/03/2012 17:38 - Ian Bell : This is possibly something we can tie into the Scripting. Allow the punters to designate their own requirements

21/03/2012 17:38 - Andy Garton : Hate to mention the name again, but iRacing have done a decent job at this - we should copy their best bits imo, the low hanging fruit. Then add cool stuff they haven't done.

21/03/2012 17:38 - Roger Lee : I should have read your whole post :)

21/03/2012 17:37 - Roger Lee : ooops

21/03/2012 17:37 - cornishbrooksy : Just a quick one....not related before this kicks off....the meeting tommorow is it planned for the same time? Its pretty late here....and dont want to miss it, so will plan to be around

21/03/2012 17:37 - Roger Lee : No, more like online leagues. Something to keep track of championship points, etc. Nothing really fancy.

21/03/2012 17:36 - Andy Tudor : Do you mean team management? Ie.. putting a team together, making private events and keeping track of who won which in a leaderboard type situation?

21/03/2012 17:36 - Micas : very exciting this new thing

21/03/2012 17:36 - Andy Tudor : Hey Roger

21/03/2012 17:35 - Ian Bell : We might Roger, this is why you're here :)

21/03/2012 17:35 - LuBu : Hello all. :)

21/03/2012 17:35 - Roger Lee : Are we going to have some kind of built in functionality for league administration?

21/03/2012 17:34 - Jan Frischkorn : Hello guys!

21/03/2012 17:34 - Ian Bell : Actually Andy, I see it as a sort of meta GTR2, lots of series being the main difference

21/03/2012 17:34 - Scott Coffey : Hello

21/03/2012 17:34 - Andy Garton : and country roads

21/03/2012 17:34 - Kevin Boland : hello everyone ..

21/03/2012 17:33 - Ian Bell : Members, please feel free to pipe in on any topic.

21/03/2012 17:33 - Rob Prange : agreed Andy :)

21/03/2012 17:33 - Andy Garton : Can we just make the design GTR2 with funky graphics and call it job done?

21/03/2012 17:33 - Ian Bell : We'll give it 5 minutes for more to join then AndyT you can kick off with an overview of where we want to go and let the punters shout at us where appropriate

21/03/2012 17:33 - Thomas Taschler : hi :)

21/03/2012 17:32 - D.man : Hi everyone! Nice to... read you

21/03/2012 17:32 - Andy Tudor : Hey everyone!

21/03/2012 17:32 - Andy Tudor : Last one I had from you is G* Daily Code Changes

21/03/2012 17:32 - Ged Keaveney : hiya

21/03/2012 17:32 - Roger Lee : hello

21/03/2012 17:32 - cornishbrooksy : Good evening!

21/03/2012 17:32 - Andy Garton : Hi all

21/03/2012 17:32 - Mark Adams : Hello

21/03/2012 17:31 - Ian Bell : Hi everyone, welcome

21/03/2012 17:31 - Ged Keaveney : sent you 3 on SMS side past few days

21/03/2012 17:31 - Vittorio Rapa : *auto

21/03/2012 17:31 - Vittorio Rapa : I'm going to reduce the audo refresh time (for Manager+) or we feel too slow.. :)

21/03/2012 17:31 - Andy Tudor : Which notification?

21/03/2012 17:30 - Thomas Taschler : Hi :)

21/03/2012 17:30 - Roger Lee : I was trying to make a new manager account when you guys interupted me with this :)

21/03/2012 17:30 - Andy Tudor : Found that you can save it as an XML so maybe that'll do

21/03/2012 17:30 - cornishbrooksy : am i in this?

21/03/2012 17:30 - Ged Keaveney : AndyT, read your bloody notifications you damn trans-sexual.

21/03/2012 17:30 - Stuart Hunt : oooh, chatting

21/03/2012 17:30 - linfosoma : Hello!

21/03/2012 17:29 - Test : Hi, i'm Vittorio's pet.

21/03/2012 17:29 - Andreas Moll : Vittorio knows best about this I guess..

21/03/2012 17:29 - Mike Laskey : is there a way to reverse the order of the chat so the latest stuff is at the bottom ?

21/03/2012 17:29 - Andreas Moll : hi..

21/03/2012 17:29 - Andy Tudor : And does it keep a log of this discussion to look back on?

21/03/2012 17:28 - Dave Flynn : Go? :)

21/03/2012 17:28 - Mike Laskey : Hi

Tim Foster
21-03-2012, 17:42
As a Senior I read through the meeting live and it seemed very constructive and interesting, so well done chaps - even if I am one of the "unwashed masses" (thx Micas :a08:).

I would just like to add regarding the point of cross-platform play. The PS3 and PC do cross-platform very well. Check out Portal 2 from Valve - this works brilliantly via Steam.

As it's been mentioned before that pCars could be heading for the Steam platform, then that might be a natural feature to implement?

Ian Bell
21-03-2012, 17:43
As a Senior I read through the meeting live and it seemed very constructive and interesting, so well done chaps - even if I am one of the "unwashed masses" (thx Micas :a08:).

I would just like to add regarding the point of cross-platform play. The PS3 and PC do cross-platform very well. Check out Portal 2 from Valve - this works brilliantly via Steam.

As it's been mentioned before that pCars could be heading for the Steam platform, then that might be a natural feature to implement?

Special agreement from Sony on that one though.

Scott Coffey
21-03-2012, 17:44
Vittorio, the inclusion of the color formatting info makes this a bit hard to read.

Karsten Kremer
21-03-2012, 17:44
Following it live was awesome intresting...very constructive. THX guys

Tim Foster
21-03-2012, 17:44
Special agreement from Sony on that one though.

Ahh, okay. Thx for the heads up.

Effectively though, Valve have managed to get Steam implemented onto the PS3 for Portal 2. Isn't that something SMS could leverage via Valve as opposed to Sony?

TonyR
21-03-2012, 17:45
- main design will be "series of serieses"
- Rallye as DLC or a completly new game
- productions cars without any kind of upgrades
- five to eight oval tracks

did I forget one of the main points?

Andy Tudor
21-03-2012, 17:47
Highlights from today's Design meeting included discussion around:

- The high-end goal for the title
- Cross-platform play
- Upgrades
- Dyno Rolling Road
- Ovals
- Country Roads
- The 'X Statement'
- Disciplines ideal for DLC
- Scenario Mode
- Career structure
- Mobile/portable support
- Team features

Simon Kaminski
21-03-2012, 17:48
TBH I don't like the idea with Steam. And X-Platform racing just means that we have to miss many things here and there because of compatibility.

Ian are GT Cars like in GTR 2 planned for pCars? I really would love to have them.

And I like this words very much, that is what I am dreaming about a long time:


On pits I want not only amazing pitstops which constitute both a break in the action but also are exciting on their own terms. Race engineer screaming at you over the headset, you can see him animated (in both senses of the word) outside of the window. I also want amazing pit to car audio.

What I would love as well that you can see the other teams as well in the Pits - it should be very busy there!

Tim Foster
21-03-2012, 17:56
TBH I don't like the idea with Steam. And X-Platform racing just means that we have to miss many things here and there because of compatibility.

Ian are GT Cars like in GTR 2 planned for pCars? I really would love to have them.

And I like this words very much, that is what I am dreaming about a long time:



What I would love as well that you can see the other teams as well in the Pits - it should be very busy there!

Unfortunate fact is though that Steam is THE digital platform for PC titles - there is an audience of millions, so it is also a massive marketing outlet.

The cross-platform play with PS3 would be a feature checkbox that could work within given limitations (e.g. restricted to certain race series/tracks/cars even) so that the PS3 can be portrayed in a "simulation" light along with the PC. This would provide great incentive for the GT5 fans looking for the "next step" in racing, which should be pCARS.

Justin Cruze
21-03-2012, 17:57
The pit 2 car voice recognition sounds amazing!

If we can do this in a way thats not repetitive or gimmicky I think that in itself would take the immersion to a whole new level.

In regards to rally, I think standalone is the right option because it really deserves to be covered in detail and not just as another piece of the racing puzzle.

Simon Kaminski
21-03-2012, 17:58
Yes but as discussed in other threads Steam as an optional choice is the best imo. Many games are sold in retail AND on Steam ;)

Benjamin Fischer
21-03-2012, 17:59
To avoid that this thread is going to be a big mess abouts tons of different topics, we should agree to keep the discussions in the certain threads.

Furthermore I'm not sure if it is the best idea to put this thread into the "News & Announcements" where everybody can read it.

Tim Foster
21-03-2012, 18:00
My to avoid that this thread is going to be a big mess abouts tons of different topics, we should agree to keep the discussions in the certain threads.

Furthermore I'm not sure if it is the best idea to put this thread into the "News & Announcements" where everybody can read it.

Good point that last one...

Micas
21-03-2012, 18:06
Having worked in IT for 20+ years in government, I've become very accustomed to structured meetings with a rigid agenda and very little free form streaming. I do think we have a grasp on some broad goals, but it would be great to see some design structure from Andy T on how to accomplish that. What we've seen from pCARS so far has all been tech, and the single player/multiplayer designs are rather broadly defined. If we could start to narrow that down into something that could be translated into actual requirements, it would be easier to critique.

There were some excellent points raised - one that struck me profoundly was the idea that "career modes" have been done many many times in other games, and we'll get downgraded in reviews if we offer up more of the same. I'm just at a loss for how we do a career differently in any measurable way. I do like the ability to simulate a career.. to get the "ultimate driver's experience" and all that. I know where that starts.. but where does it end? Is it Formula 1, and NASCAR, or Indy? How does a driver "win" the game? What's the end of the career? How do we have the top tier series, if we can't get a license for it? Is multiplayer the only "end game"?

Lots of questions to work out, and seems like very little time to get it all in place for release.

Alex White
21-03-2012, 18:08
21/03/2012 17:57 - Ian Bell : I disagree Andy. It was done in Toca way back but I had to listen to some annoying Scottish bloke

Scottish people arnt annoying .. *Sobs* .. :D

Pretty interesting to read, some cool stuff. I like the rolling road to benchmark cars idea :)

Ian Bell
21-03-2012, 18:09
21/03/2012 17:57 - Ian Bell : I disagree Andy. It was done in Toca way back but I had to listen to some annoying Scottish bloke

Scottish people arnt annoying .. *Sobs* .. :D

Pretty interesting to read, some cool stuff. I like the rolling road to benchmark cars idea :)

Hey, not a generalisation Alex, this one was though :) As was his caravan.

Andy Garton
21-03-2012, 18:11
Having worked in IT for 20+ years in government, I've become very accustomed to structured meetings with a rigid agenda and very little free form streaming. I do think we have a grasp on some broad goals, but it would be great to see some design structure from Andy T on how to accomplish that. What we've seen from pCARS so far has all been tech, and the single player/multiplayer designs are rather broadly defined. If we could start to narrow that down into something that could be translated into actual requirements, it would be easier to critique.

There were some excellent points raised - one that struck me profoundly was the idea that "career modes" have been done many many times in other games, and we'll get downgraded in reviews if we offer up more of the same. I'm just at a loss for how we do a career differently in any measurable way. I do like the ability to simulate a career.. to get the "ultimate driver's experience" and all that. I know where that starts.. but where does it end? Is it Formula 1, and NASCAR, or Indy? How does a driver "win" the game? What's the end of the career? How do we have the top tier series, if we can't get a license for it? Is multiplayer the only "end game"?

Lots of questions to work out, and seems like very little time to get it all in place for release.
Don't worry too much about the time aspect. The career engine is in place and quite flexible and powerful, so getting the design right from the start (as far as possible, it will inevitably change for the better as we begin to touch and feel it) is the most important thing.

Of course the time to complete the required cars and tracks is something still to "worry" about - really it's a simple equation though so no real concerns from me on that either.

Tim Foster
21-03-2012, 18:12
I would guess some form of rigid design document/scope would be a part of the potential investor/distribution deal that Ian has mentioned, so that should be imminent and is perhaps the reason that these open meetings have been kickstarted.

I'm not saying that SMS doesn't already have a design document - far from it. However the details will probably have to be drawn up quite precisely for a large investor to sum up potential milestone/release dates etc.

Justin Cruze
21-03-2012, 18:19
Does the career mode necessarily have to end? Cant it be like Football Manager (digital drug I tell you) where your incentive to continue is to get to the top of the hall of fame by winning championships, series, and special enduros such as Le Mans?

Or perhaps you could make the goal to win the triple crown of motorsport? I.e. Monaco GP, Le Mans, and Indianopolis 500.
My googling skillz reveal that currently only one driver has ever achieved this.

Micas
21-03-2012, 18:22
The pit 2 car voice recognition sounds amazing! If we can do this in a way thats not repetitive or gimmicky I think that in itself would take the immersion to a whole new level.

My idea for this is that we we identify the functions that a driver would normally need to push buttons or do keystrokes for, and map them to a voice pattern. This would put a limit on the number of functions that can be voice activated. For example; if you want to change 4 tires in the next pit stop.. you'd have maybe 3 key strokes to do that. 1. pit command, 2. tire change, 3. number tires. You'd map 1. to a voice activation of "pit", 2. to voice "tires", 3. "four". If you wanted to change 2 tires you'd have 1.,2.,3. = "two", +4. side = "left" or "right". I'd say into the mic, "pit tires two left" and that would setup the crew to change my left side tires at the next stop. If the software didn't understand the command, the crew chief would say "say again, you're breaking up".. we'd have maybe 5 variations of that "i didn't understand what you just said" function so it's not overly repetitive.

So.. just take that concept and apply it to every function that is planned for pit stops and viola.. Car2Pit. Awesome! That's worth 10 metacritic points right there IMO.

"pit fuel 20" - "pit aero downforce 10" - "pit driver change" - "pit tire front pressure 50"

Of course.. if every command is for the pit crew, that could be dropped.. just pressing the Car2Pit button would be the same thing as saying "pit" - but if there were other functions that could be mapped to the voice recognition, then you'd need the "pit" word mapped in.

So as part of the setup process (wheel calibration and so on), you would have the option of setting up the Car2Pit. The game would walk you through each one of the functions and you would speak into the mic to calibrate it. The game would prompt "say the word pit" - and you would speak it... "say the word fuel" - and you would speak it. That would be recorded and used for matching what you speak to the proper function. This would make it so language doesn't matter. You could speak in any language you want and the game would just match it up based on how you calibrated the Car2Pit.

I have no idea if that's possible - but I think it would be awesomely cool.

Mihkel Kytt
21-03-2012, 18:23
Can anyone please explain what is the difference between DLC and separate game? There was a question if rally will be DLC or independent from pCARS. Why is it better do have rally as DLC than independent game or vice versa?

Andy Garton
21-03-2012, 18:24
Does the career mode necessarily have to end? Cant it be like Football Manager (digital drug I tell you) where your incentive to continue is to get to the top of the hall of fame by winning championships, series, and special enduros such as Le Mans?
That's a good question, and it just kicked off a brainstorming idea in my head which is probably bollocks but I'll write it down anyway. How about we have a "real" race calendar, stored server side, which forms the basics of the career structure. It would run over a set period of time (maybe quarterly or something?) and then be updated (i.e. pushed to all players the next time they log in). Very vaguely like iRacing's "season" structure, but for the offline career. It would fit with post-release content quite nicely also (i.e. new cars/tracks/series added with each new season). It wouldn't run in real time, players would be able to jump about the calendar as they see fit (and in theory could "complete" that season before the next one starts).

Probably a million reasons why it wouldn't work, but it might be worth thinking some more about as it's not something I really remember seeing before yet still leverages the realistic "multiple racing series" approach.

Micas
21-03-2012, 18:33
Justin/Andy, that's brilliant. That solves the problem of the single player end game. That would definitely be judged very positively in reviews, and the players would love it. You'd regularly have something new to do.

Jason Ganz
21-03-2012, 18:33
Does the career mode necessarily have to end? Cant it be like Football Manager (digital drug I tell you) where your incentive to continue is to get to the top of the hall of fame by winning championships, series, and special enduros such as Le Mans?

Or perhaps you could make the goal to win the triple crown of motorsport? I.e. Monaco GP, Le Mans, and Indianopolis 500.
My googling skillz reveal that currently only one driver has ever achieved this.

I'll take Graham hill for $100 :D

TonyR
21-03-2012, 18:34
Can anyone please explain what is the difference between DLC and separate game? There was a question if rally will be DLC or independent from pCARS. Why is it better do have rally as DLC than independent game or vice versa?

DLC means 5 to 15 € IMHO, so there will be less content and/or less accuracy then in an independant game.

Justin Cruze
21-03-2012, 18:38
That's a good question, and it just kicked off a brainstorming idea in my head which is probably bollocks but I'll write it down anyway. How about we have a "real" race calendar, stored server side, which forms the basics of the career structure. It would run over a set period of time (maybe quarterly or something?) and then be updated (i.e. pushed to all players the next time they log in). Very vaguely like iRacing's "season" structure, but for the offline career. It would fit with post-release content quite nicely also (i.e. new cars/tracks/series added with each new season). It wouldn't run in real time, players would be able to jump about the calendar as they see fit (and in theory could "complete" that season before the next one starts).

Probably a million reasons why it wouldn't work, but it might be worth thinking some more about as it's not something I really remember seeing before yet still leverages the realistic "multiple racing series" approach.

Interesting idea, I imagine having some sort of real race calendar like that would fit in very well with the social networking aspect of the game as well.

Neil Hopwood
21-03-2012, 18:38
For the additional career starting would it be possible to do the Caterham Academy (http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/academy.html)?

Andy Tudor
21-03-2012, 18:39
I wouldn't see it ending, no.

Broadly speaking, I'd hope the following experience is possible...

- You choose a starting point from those available (ie.. karting/Formula Renault - something that you hear of real drivers starting out in)

- You then have a calendar denoting the year and all the events within it (see the Race Calendar thread which was started as research for this)

- You can then enter events in the discipline you've chosen (let's take karting as the example here then)

- You can see events from all other disciplines but can't enter them yet (since the teams involved there don't know who the hell you are). Eventually once you have enough money of course you can start your own team and enter these yourself

- Time progresses as events in the 'season' are entered

- Success throughout the season rewards you with cash and fame. Fame gets you noticed and therefore gets you noticed as a racer. This means sponsorships, invitations to take part in exhibition events, chances to drive other cars as a test driver, offers from other teams, and the ability to enter other disciplines (eg.. prove yourself in GT2 and a GT1 team may want to hire you). Obviously, the higher your fame the more your calendar schedule will get tightly packed though!

- Once the season is over, you then go into the next year where you may choose to stay where you are and chase that elusive championship you didn't win in the previous year (or defend it if you did!), or choose another discipline if one is available to you

- Ultimately if you choose to, you can start your own team and enter a high-end series like LeMans or F1 if you so desire, but alternatively you could remain in a discipline of your choosing for as long as you want, or try to master each discipline in turn (eg... the Triple Crown example given). Either way, your aim is to simply become a legend and it's up to you what form that takes

It's a completely open-ended game therefore which has parallels with both the real-world (thereby being authentic) and sports titles (thereby being proven as successful). The planned team management feature complements it in terms of co-operative play with friends (as Driver #1 and #2 where appropriate) and potential DLC provides more choices and opportunities in the career that keep it expanding and fresh similar to an MMO

Justin Cruze
21-03-2012, 18:40
I'll take Graham hill for $100 :D

Well played sir :cool:

Andy Garton
21-03-2012, 18:41
Interesting idea, I imagine having some sort of real race calendar like that would fit in very well with the social networking aspect of the game as well.
Indeed, I was just thinking about how that might work. The basics of the career series' scoring and progress would need to be against the AI opponents of course, but we could have separate rankings to show how you're doing compared to your friends/local country players/all players.

Dillyracer
21-03-2012, 18:42
Definately agreeing with Ian Bell's sentiments on TOCA 3's career.

Mentioned the same example in the career thread somewhere on this forum, I loved the feeling of progression in that career.

KAMPFBIBER81
21-03-2012, 18:46
+ for endless single player in calendar-like planning system that enables you to run as much (or less) series like you want (and are available to you during your career). Would technically allow to strech the game with DLC's of other series/forms of motorsport.

TonyR
21-03-2012, 18:48
I wouldn't see it ending, no.

Broadly speaking, I'd hope the following experience is possible...

- You choose a starting point from those available (ie.. karting/Formula Renault - something that you hear of real drivers starting out in)

- You then have a calendar denoting the year and all the events within it (see the Race Calendar thread which was started as research for this)

- You can then enter events in the discipline you've chosen (let's take karting as the example here then)

- You can see events from all other disciplines but can't enter them yet (since the teams involved there don't know who the hell you are). Eventually once you have enough money of course you can start your own team and enter these yourself

- Time progresses as events in the 'season' are entered

- Success throughout the season rewards you with cash and fame. Fame gets you noticed and therefore gets you noticed as a racer. This means sponsorships, invitations to take part in exhibition events, chances to drive other cars as a test driver, offers from other teams, and the ability to enter other disciplines (eg.. prove yourself in GT2 and a GT1 team may want to hire you). Obviously, the higher your fame the more your calendar schedule will get tightly packed though!

- Once the season is over, you then go into the next year where you may choose to stay where you are and chase that elusive championship you didn't win in the previous year (or defend it if you did!), or choose another discipline if one is available to you

- Ultimately if you choose to, you can start your own team and enter a high-end series like LeMans or F1 if you so desire, but alternatively you could remain in a discipline of your choosing for as long as you want, or try to master each discipline in turn (eg... the Triple Crown example given). Either way, your aim is to simply become a legend and it's up to you what form that takes

It's a completely open-ended game therefore which has parallels with both the real-world (thereby being authentic) and sports titles (thereby being proven as successful). The planned team management feature complements it in terms of co-operative play with friends (as Driver #1 and #2 where appropriate) and potential DLC provides more choices and opportunities in the career that keep it expanding and fresh similar to an MMO

I like that, sounds a bit similiar to Race Driver GRID.
Their carreer was fine, but I think you didn't have real choices which series you drive because you got the numbers (how many $$ you will get) and you (i mean i did so) just decided what is better for my bank.
Would be nice to not to include the money side of the whole thing too much in my opinion.

Dude27
21-03-2012, 18:49
The single player MUST BE solid... I love good multi, but I don't have many time to do multi so I hope the single player gameplay will be as solid as a classic GTR game.

corstick
21-03-2012, 18:56
The most important thing to me for career mode in a racing game is to make each race meaningful. In a lot of games you end up rushing through just to unlock the next stage or reward rather than savouring each individual event. If we can take the depth that the game engine should be able to offer (dynamic conditions, challenging strategy, intense racing) and couple that with a Football Manager style career structure that keeps you coming back for more, pCARS could be on to a winner.

Simon Kaminski
21-03-2012, 18:56
I wouldn't see it ending, no.

Broadly speaking, I'd hope the following experience is possible...

- You choose a starting point from those available (ie.. karting/Formula Renault - something that you hear of real drivers starting out in)

- You then have a calendar denoting the year and all the events within it (see the Race Calendar thread which was started as research for this)

- You can then enter events in the discipline you've chosen (let's take karting as the example here then)

- You can see events from all other disciplines but can't enter them yet (since the teams involved there don't know who the hell you are). Eventually once you have enough money of course you can start your own team and enter these yourself

- Time progresses as events in the 'season' are entered

- Success throughout the season rewards you with cash and fame. Fame gets you noticed and therefore gets you noticed as a racer. This means sponsorships, invitations to take part in exhibition events, chances to drive other cars as a test driver, offers from other teams, and the ability to enter other disciplines (eg.. prove yourself in GT2 and a GT1 team may want to hire you). Obviously, the higher your fame the more your calendar schedule will get tightly packed though!

- Once the season is over, you then go into the next year where you may choose to stay where you are and chase that elusive championship you didn't win in the previous year (or defend it if you did!), or choose another discipline if one is available to you

- Ultimately if you choose to, you can start your own team and enter a high-end series like LeMans or F1 if you so desire, but alternatively you could remain in a discipline of your choosing for as long as you want, or try to master each discipline in turn (eg... the Triple Crown example given). Either way, your aim is to simply become a legend and it's up to you what form that takes

It's a completely open-ended game therefore which has parallels with both the real-world (thereby being authentic) and sports titles (thereby being proven as successful). The planned team management feature complements it in terms of co-operative play with friends (as Driver #1 and #2 where appropriate) and potential DLC provides more choices and opportunities in the career that keep it expanding and fresh similar to an MMO

Maybe a bit crazy but what about enhancing this like the Fifa Manager means you have to take care of the money, your workers, talk on press events (maybe like mass Effect 3 with multiple choices) and this stuff? So that we have a Manager Race Sim :)

Ryno917
21-03-2012, 18:57
I wouldn't see it ending, no.

Broadly speaking, I'd hope the following experience is possible...

- You choose a starting point from those available (ie.. karting/Formula Renault - something that you hear of real drivers starting out in)

- You then have a calendar denoting the year and all the events within it (see the Race Calendar thread which was started as research for this)

- You can then enter events in the discipline you've chosen (let's take karting as the example here then)

- You can see events from all other disciplines but can't enter them yet (since the teams involved there don't know who the hell you are). Eventually once you have enough money of course you can start your own team and enter these yourself

- Time progresses as events in the 'season' are entered

- Success throughout the season rewards you with cash and fame. Fame gets you noticed and therefore gets you noticed as a racer. This means sponsorships, invitations to take part in exhibition events, chances to drive other cars as a test driver, offers from other teams, and the ability to enter other disciplines (eg.. prove yourself in GT2 and a GT1 team may want to hire you). Obviously, the higher your fame the more your calendar schedule will get tightly packed though!

- Once the season is over, you then go into the next year where you may choose to stay where you are and chase that elusive championship you didn't win in the previous year (or defend it if you did!), or choose another discipline if one is available to you

- Ultimately if you choose to, you can start your own team and enter a high-end series like LeMans or F1 if you so desire, but alternatively you could remain in a discipline of your choosing for as long as you want, or try to master each discipline in turn (eg... the Triple Crown example given). Either way, your aim is to simply become a legend and it's up to you what form that takes

It's a completely open-ended game therefore which has parallels with both the real-world (thereby being authentic) and sports titles (thereby being proven as successful). The planned team management feature complements it in terms of co-operative play with friends (as Driver #1 and #2 where appropriate) and potential DLC provides more choices and opportunities in the career that keep it expanding and fresh similar to an MMO

This is exactly what I expected following the original design document, and exactly what I want out of the final game.

Andy Garton
21-03-2012, 19:01
Broadly speaking, I'd hope the following experience is possible...

<stuff>

It's good Andy, but just a little too static for me (and therefore very similar to Codemasters games). I think the dynamic season idea could fit in with this quite nicely. The one downside is that players would need to go online to get each season's data. I don't think that's a big issue these days though.

Simon Kaminski
21-03-2012, 19:06
It's good Andy, but just a little too static for me (and therefore very similar to Codemasters games). I think the dynamic season idea could fit in with this quite nicely. The one downside is that players would need to go online to get each season's data. I don't think that's a big issue these days though.

And if you think about pirating it should make it a lot harder to crack this. All the pirates could do then is starting training events but the SP campaign and MP are not usable because you have to login on your servers and get the data from there.

So there is a big incentive to buy this game ;)

Andy Garton
21-03-2012, 19:10
Yes good point. For that reason we could even consider making the season updates weekly to have the anti-piracy login used more often.

Ryno917
21-03-2012, 19:11
And if you think about pirating it should make it a lot harder to crack this. All the pirates could do then is starting training events but the SP campaign and MP are not usable because you have to login on your servers and get the data from there.

So there is a big incentive to buy this game ;)

That is an excellent point. I'm not sure how exactly a dynamic calendar works from a practical standpoint, though. Is that calendar going to contain an entire season's worth of events? What happens if we don't finish our season before a new calendar is available? Interesting concept that would be interesting to see how it develops.

Alejandro Gorgal
21-03-2012, 19:13
Yes good point. For that reason we could even consider making the season updates weekly to have the anti-piracy login used more often.

Weekly syncing is a good idea. The game should still habe an offline mode with some basic functionallity though, few days ago my internet connection went down and I couldn't play pCars, it wasnt an ideal situation.

Andy Garton
21-03-2012, 19:19
Weekly syncing is a good idea. The game should still habe an offline mode with some basic functionallity though, few days ago my internet connection went down and I couldn't play pCars, it wasnt an ideal situation.
Single race would still work and you'd have the week's season events you previously downloaded, so plenty really to allow for internet outage.

Ryno917
21-03-2012, 19:20
Weekly syncing is a good idea. The game should still habe an offline mode with some basic functionallity though, few days ago my internet connection went down and I couldn't play pCars, it wasnt an ideal situation.

I was left without internet for nearly 3 weeks due to a crappy ISP (lesson learned; don't rely on third party providers in Ontario...). Prehaps leaving the sim unlocked, locally, for at least a month after last successful login is a good option?

rocker_lx
21-03-2012, 19:25
Nice meeting. I just don't get the "X" and elevator talk?:a40:
I'm for upgrades but to keep it simple only 2 options: Stock and race with cage, lightened body, suspension, tires etc.
Also Rally as separate game is a good idea.
I'm not much of an online player so i would like to see a cheat mode where you can select any car/track for time trial or track day.

Krzysztof Blachut
21-03-2012, 19:25
I'd love to see a career like in TOCA Series, but TBH the career in TOCA2 was much more exciting than in TOCA3. I know that in TOCA3 the variety of racing series was bigger, but in spite of this, I only tried around 2/3 of cars.
As I said, TOCA2 career was better, I loved eliminating the worst drivers at the end of each season and those short videos between some races showing pits from "the other side".
If you played TOCA 2, you know what I mean :)
I'm sure this kind of career would make pCARS much better.

Daniel Westlake
21-03-2012, 19:27
The most important thing to me for career mode in a racing game is to make each race meaningful. In a lot of games you end up rushing through just to unlock the next stage or reward rather than savouring each individual event. If we can take the depth that the game engine should be able to offer (dynamic conditions, challenging strategy, intense racing) and couple that with a Football Manager style career structure that keeps you coming back for more, pCARS could be on to a winner.

^ I hope this could be avoided too. I'm not a big F1 fan (more of a GT3, GT1, mixed class guy), but I'm sure there are some people that would want to immediately start a career in the F1 discipline. Could there be like a two-stage starting point? One could be like Andy said where you start in karts and work your way up from there, entering into the higher classes if you want, or stay in a particular championship for as long as you want.

But, maybe if you wanted to start in F1 immediately, the game could just start from that point as if you had worked your way up anyway? That way you guys could use the progression you would have already included in the "starting from scratch career." ?

I would love to see something like this so people don't feel like they would need to grind through lower level tiers to get to the racing that they really want to do. You might feel more satisfaction and immersion having worked your way up to the top, but I know at least for me, if I could immediately start in something like a GT3 championship, I'm going to love the racing anyway! I'm going to try everything, but I know I'll spend more time in a particular career track/championship than others.

The idea of doing multiple years in a series and defending championships would be awesome. Maybe you could have some control over the championship as well, like picking different tracks for subsequent years, to keep things new?

shamblemonkee
21-03-2012, 19:37
Yeah so you could start in any branch at any level you desired, but maybe for a lowly team and then still have to play a season or so to get the interest in you up to be offered a contract with a higher performing team?

I think a FIFA style calander and career management side would really be a great selling point, forza tried the whole race calendar thing but failed miserably because it was so static with no progrsseion attached to it other than cash for cars.

I want ot feel as though i'm in a real racing career, driving to get results to fund my next career move if i don't get offered a contract, or to get more sponsors on board, to bea tmy team amte, to beat my seaosn rival, or my teams rivals, those sorts of things over a decent race distancein a race with all the dynamics of weather, wear, etc..

Justin Cruze
21-03-2012, 19:41
It's a completely open-ended game therefore which has parallels with both the real-world (thereby being authentic) and sports titles (thereby being proven as successful). The planned team management feature complements it in terms of co-operative play with friends (as Driver #1 and #2 where appropriate) and potential DLC provides more choices and opportunities in the career that keep it expanding and fresh similar to an MMO
That looks good Andy :a04:

Couple of comments:

- Cash and fame needs to be very finely balanced, otherwise there's always the potential for the game to become too easy or too difficult. Cash in particular should not be that easy to come by in the early - mid stages of the game as motorsport is not very lucrative until you get to the more established or top tier series'.

- Another leaf out of the football manager book.......perhaps add basic relationships between the player and the racing teams? Not entirely sure how you would implement this but perhaps based on how well you handle team expectations, media (will there be media?), and how well your results match up against your teammate.......you might actually start losing favour with your team meaning they would actively look to get rid of you to a different team.
Also, based on how much the team "dislikes" you it could mean that you cant ever drive for that particular team again (or atleast not for a long time).
Ofcourse you could take this further and make it extremely complicated like FM but that would be a lot of work and probably not worth it.

The main thing with a concept like this is to not let the career mode get stale and predictable over time.
Even with FM, this does eventually happen but I think adding some AI to the actual game world can go a long way towards making it that bit more organic.

Eric Johnson
21-03-2012, 19:49
I'm at odds with what I think is the trend of having locked tiers of cars and tracks that need to be 'achieved' over time, at least in the larger segment of driving games. There was a point when I started playing Grid/Shift/Gran T after playing GTR 1/2/Race07 and the F1 series that I felt trapped in a maze I didnt want to spend all the time to get out of. I think though maybe not in the actual 'career mode' all of the content needs to be available from the first install. Once you choose which series you want to start in for a carrer, that can be limited, sure. But I sometimes just need more of a trackday environment where I can drive anything I want and rip off laps for an hour. Or an abbreviated race weekend/series/custom series. I'm struggling with the notion that the open ended lack of an actual career in say Race 07 was appealing, though I doubt that type of austerity gets reviewed well on a console. And moving from one type of car to another race by race made it hard to really get in a rhythm with a specific car in the Shift series, so I'd barge through until I got to something I wanted to drive. I eventually stopped playing that, pretty quickly, but got years out of GTR2 and Race07 etc.

So perhaps, choose your series to start in, but give the player the ability to choose any series they want. Then make that path the most visceral it caqn be, which is already on track it seems.

This might already be patently obvious but I just wanted to get it out there.

Jason Ganz
21-03-2012, 19:50
I'm concerned with whether the "race format" will mean that if for some reason we can't play for a week or more, that we'll be affected, even in SP mode, or will "season mode" be stretchable to the player's needs. I'd like to have both options: A proper season-length for those who like the vein of iRacing (having a set racetime schedule, be there or else), and some sort of offline "go at your pace" mode where a season is x amount of races, but there are fewer time constraints (ie: no "IF YOU DONT PLAY AT THIS TIME YOURE OUT!" law). Also, if the races are 1:1 to a season, does that mean if a race is at 3am EDT or some goofy time, does that mean all players would have to be awake at that time in order to play a simulation of the current season race (ie: If it's LeMans day, do all of us have to be up for 24 hrs straight playing or face losing points for that season, or can we do a truncated 24 hrs of LeMans - since most of us here aren't professional racers).

Just wondering, any further details would be appreciated

Jason

dusty
21-03-2012, 20:08
Unfortunate fact is though that Steam is THE digital platform for PC titles - there is an audience of millions, so it is also a massive marketing outlet.

The cross-platform play with PS3 would be a feature checkbox that could work within given limitations (e.g. restricted to certain race series/tracks/cars even) so that the PS3 can be portrayed in a "simulation" light along with the PC. This would provide great incentive for the GT5 fans looking for the "next step" in racing, which should be pCARS.

steam is working on or already is available on ps3. just not sure on titles or how in depth there going.

Dan Blamey
21-03-2012, 20:08
Hardcore career! I've pushed this from time to time, but I'd really like to see it done. It would make the career so much more intense to know that a couple of serious crashes could be the end of your career! Of course this would be an optional mode, but it would track you're career 'length' and you would have bragging rights the longer you 'survive.' I personally think that's a really fresh take on racing, really forcing you to drive with care and thought, instead of just running top speed and restarting after each crash. You'd really feel like a driver surviving in the tough world of racing and it would be a huge achievement winning the championships as you have to be really fast without wrecking all the time. It's just absolutely crucial that the AI are really good, and you could probably just have one or two restarts per race to eliminate the frustration of the AI accidentally taking you out. It could even tie into an 'online' career with the same rules.

GT5 does pretty regular online updates for the 'seasonal events' and that seems very popular, so I think Andy T's idea is a great one.

The second point I find important is that the career doesn't feel disjointed. Just having multiple series that don't tie to each other and don't bear any reference to your previous career progress and choices I find just doesn't grab me at all. If I know why and how I got to each series I'm in and feel I've actually earned it I feel better :)

Edit: Something I didn't add the in hardcore career idea I raised, was allowing a 'practice' before each season so you can get accustomed to each new car and the tracks. The practice means more confidence entering the series.

C3PO
21-03-2012, 20:21
Very quickly read some of the notes: the points sound fantastic. At work (and it's busy today) but will post some ideas too later.

Peter Ball
21-03-2012, 20:44
Elevator Pitch:

"pCars, as real as you need it to be"

"pCars is the first racing simulation that configures itself to you. Whether that's down and dirty, adrenaline fuelled pick up races; the most complete driving career on the planet or a deep, achingly detailed league simulation environment. pCars, like a high class tart, will be whatever you want it to be"

Jason Ganz
21-03-2012, 20:58
Elevator Pitch:

"pCars, as real as you need it to be"

"pCars is the first racing simulation that configures itself to you. Whether that's down and dirty, adrenaline fuelled pick up races; the most complete driving career on the planet or a deep, achingly detailed league simulation environment. pCars, like a high class tart, will be whatever you want it to be"

That, is probably the GREATEST promo line, in the history of promo lines, EVER

Mike Laskey
21-03-2012, 20:59
That's a good question, and it just kicked off a brainstorming idea in my head which is probably bollocks but I'll write it down anyway. How about we have a "real" race calendar, stored server side, which forms the basics of the career structure. It would run over a set period of time (maybe quarterly or something?) and then be updated (i.e. pushed to all players the next time they log in). Very vaguely like iRacing's "season" structure, but for the offline career. It would fit with post-release content quite nicely also (i.e. new cars/tracks/series added with each new season). It wouldn't run in real time, players would be able to jump about the calendar as they see fit (and in theory could "complete" that season before the next one starts).

Probably a million reasons why it wouldn't work, but it might be worth thinking some more about as it's not something I really remember seeing before yet still leverages the realistic "multiple racing series" approach.

Works for me and easily lends itself to SP and MP.

Rob Prange
21-03-2012, 21:00
Yeah, I like that as well. I think we should somehow emphasize that pCARS is will be satisfying both the hardcore simmer and more casual gamers - Everybody should feel like they get what they`re looking for.

Curbfeeler
21-03-2012, 21:08
Regarding ovals, I know a lot of you don't go for the hillbilly stuff and cringe at the thought of oval racing in your game. Maybe pick only ovals which have a really fun road course. I don't like oval racing at all, but I went to a Grand Am race on the road course at the Iowa Speedway (about 20 miles from my home). It was a blast. Maybe pick the 5-8 ovals that are voted to have the best road courses and go with those. Best of both worlds.

Umer Ahmad
21-03-2012, 21:09
Weekly syncing is a good idea. The game should still habe an offline mode with some basic functionallity though, few days ago my internet connection went down and I couldn't play pCars, it wasnt an ideal situation.
At first I agreed, some kind of offline mode would be nice. But to protect the game further, would it be really a bad idea to have 100% online/login requirement? Would that be an excessive security measure? Because I'm not 100% against it. Just wondering. Yeah if my 'net went down I'd be idle but I could live with that if there were other bonuses/incentives for the overall project.

Thomas Taschler
21-03-2012, 21:14
It could work like it is now: You need an Internet Connedtion to log in. Once you are in it doesn't matter if you go offline or not.
And the racing timetable thing is also nice

steve30x
21-03-2012, 21:28
Firstly about your anti Piracy. You should consider having a patch in place and ready for when you guys will no longer have a server host for the game. This patch should make it so that it is no longer necesary to log in to the server to play offline. I do like the Idea of having a weekly update for the Single Player season play too. Also another thing you guys should do if possible for Pirated games is cut the game down to a limited content of one car one track if thats possible.

Secondly I would like to make a suggestion for single player. This might complicate things but I have been thinking about this from playing GT5 and Forza 4.I love the grinding I have to do in GT4 to buy new cars , upgrades and level up , but I dont like how Forza 4 throws free upgrades , upgraded cars and money at me making the game too easy to gain stuff. So heres my Idea. When you start the game you first get an option for easy levelling up etc or Hard grinding. I'm not sure if this is doable but it would work for those who just want to play casually or people like me who want to work hard for their winnings etc.

One thing I think is very necesary for online is ghost mode where the cars cant crash into each other. If a rammer tries to ram you their car goes through you. This should be an option when creating an online race. I avoid most online racing games that dont have this option because you get those rammers that think its fun to punt others.


At first I agreed, some kind of offline mode would be nice. But to protect the game further, would it be really a bad idea to have 100% online/login requirement? Would that be an excessive security measure? Because I'm not 100% against it. Just wondering. Yeah if my 'net went down I'd be idle but I could live with that if there were other bonuses/incentives for the overall project. Yes I think a 100% online connection is too excesive. A one time login for each time you want to play is alright , but you also need to think about people who want to play the game when they are not at home or on holidays where they hve no internet.There should be some way for those people to be able to play too.

Simon Kaminski
21-03-2012, 21:32
I really hate grinding. Please not.

steve30x
21-03-2012, 21:43
I really hate grinding. Please not.That is why I suggested an option for quick career upgrades or non grinding and a second option for people like me who love grinding. I am the opposite to you and Ihate it when games throw stuff at me.

Roger Lee
21-03-2012, 21:57
Regarding ovals, I know a lot of you don't go for the hillbilly stuff and cringe at the thought of oval racing in your game. Maybe pick only ovals which have a really fun road course. I don't like oval racing at all, but I went to a Grand Am race on the road course at the Iowa Speedway (about 20 miles from my home). It was a blast. Maybe pick the 5-8 ovals that are voted to have the best road courses and go with those. Best of both worlds.

I'm not really sure how to take that. I must be one of the educated hillbillies. Ovals should be included for their strength as ovals not their road courses. If they have one (like Daytona) that's fine, but that is a little elitist to think that something added for one portion of the customer base can't have any value without giving something to the other in the process. You as an American should know how big oval racing is in this country of 300 million people. There is a market for that here, just because you don't care for it doesn't make it less valuable.

*gets off his soapbox*

Alejandro Gorgal
21-03-2012, 22:20
Ok so now I feel the need to ask: has drifting being dropped completely or is it going to be left as DLC? I was initially exited when I saw it included on the design document because let's face it, there isn't a single realistic game on PC that can get this right (LFS doesn't really count), but judging from the responses on the chat Im getting the impression that this is now frowned upon.

Reaper 392
21-03-2012, 22:24
i dont know if its been posted, but here is the chat in its proper order thanks to a very handy tool ive just found: http://textop.us/Lines-tools/Reverse-lines

*edit*
copied from the quote to get smilies and colours
*/edit*

21/03/2012 17:28 - Mike Laskey : Hi

21/03/2012 17:28 - Dave Flynn : Go? :)

21/03/2012 17:29 - Andy Tudor : And does it keep a log of this discussion to look back on?

21/03/2012 17:29 - Andreas Moll : hi..

21/03/2012 17:29 - Mike Laskey : is there a way to reverse the order of the chat so the latest stuff is at the bottom ?

21/03/2012 17:29 - Andreas Moll : Vittorio knows best about this I guess..

21/03/2012 17:29 - Test : Hi, i'm Vittorio's pet.

21/03/2012 17:30 - linfosoma : Hello!

21/03/2012 17:30 - Stuart Hunt : oooh, chatting

21/03/2012 17:30 - Ged Keaveney : AndyT, read your bloody notifications you damn trans-sexual.

21/03/2012 17:30 - cornishbrooksy : am i in this?

21/03/2012 17:30 - Andy Tudor : Found that you can save it as an XML so maybe that'll do

21/03/2012 17:30 - Roger Lee : I was trying to make a new manager account when you guys interupted me with this :)

21/03/2012 17:30 - Thomas Taschler : Hi :)

21/03/2012 17:31 - Andy Tudor : Which notification?

21/03/2012 17:31 - Vittorio Rapa : I'm going to reduce the audo refresh time (for Manager+) or we feel too slow.. :)

21/03/2012 17:31 - Vittorio Rapa : *auto

21/03/2012 17:31 - Ged Keaveney : sent you 3 on SMS side past few days

21/03/2012 17:31 - Ian Bell : Hi everyone, welcome

21/03/2012 17:32 - Mark Adams : Hello

21/03/2012 17:32 - Andy Garton : Hi all

21/03/2012 17:32 - cornishbrooksy : Good evening!

21/03/2012 17:32 - Roger Lee : hello

21/03/2012 17:32 - Ged Keaveney : hiya

21/03/2012 17:32 - Andy Tudor : Last one I had from you is G* Daily Code Changes

21/03/2012 17:32 - Andy Tudor : Hey everyone!

21/03/2012 17:32 - D.man : Hi everyone! Nice to... read you

21/03/2012 17:33 - Thomas Taschler : hi :)

21/03/2012 17:33 - Ian Bell : We'll give it 5 minutes for more to join then AndyT you can kick off with an overview of where we want to go and let the punters shout at us where appropriate

21/03/2012 17:33 - Andy Garton : Can we just make the design GTR2 with funky graphics and call it job done?

21/03/2012 17:33 - Rob Prange : agreed Andy :)

21/03/2012 17:33 - Ian Bell : Members, please feel free to pipe in on any topic.

21/03/2012 17:34 - Kevin Boland : hello everyone ..

21/03/2012 17:34 - Andy Garton : and country roads

21/03/2012 17:34 - Scott Coffey : Hello

21/03/2012 17:34 - Ian Bell : Actually Andy, I see it as a sort of meta GTR2, lots of series being the main difference

21/03/2012 17:34 - Jan Frischkorn : Hello guys!

21/03/2012 17:35 - Roger Lee : Are we going to have some kind of built in functionality for league administration?

21/03/2012 17:35 - LuBu : Hello all. :)

21/03/2012 17:35 - Ian Bell : We might Roger, this is why you're here :)

21/03/2012 17:36 - Andy Tudor : Hey Roger

21/03/2012 17:36 - Micas : very exciting this new thing

21/03/2012 17:36 - Andy Tudor : Do you mean team management? Ie.. putting a team together, making private events and keeping track of who won which in a leaderboard type situation?

21/03/2012 17:37 - Roger Lee : No, more like online leagues. Something to keep track of championship points, etc. Nothing really fancy.

21/03/2012 17:37 - cornishbrooksy : Just a quick one....not related before this kicks off....the meeting tommorow is it planned for the same time? Its pretty late here....and dont want to miss it, so will plan to be around

21/03/2012 17:37 - Roger Lee : ooops

21/03/2012 17:38 - Roger Lee : I should have read your whole post :)

21/03/2012 17:38 - Andy Garton : Hate to mention the name again, but iRacing have done a decent job at this - we should copy their best bits imo, the low hanging fruit. Then add cool stuff they haven't done.

21/03/2012 17:38 - Ian Bell : This is possibly something we can tie into the Scripting. Allow the punters to designate their own requirements

21/03/2012 17:39 - Ged Keaveney : exposure via scripting is what I'd like to do, depends how many configurable aspects of the setup there are but I think we should be able to do something

21/03/2012 17:39 - D.man : Can somebody give me fast setup for FA? It's damn hard to drive now :)

21/03/2012 17:39 - Ian Bell : Anyway, let's kick off. Have we all ready the WMD side design overview?

21/03/2012 17:39 - Carborati : Hi eveyone :)

21/03/2012 17:40 - Roger Lee : which levels can participate in this?

21/03/2012 17:40 - Andy Tudor : I think we're talking about the same thing then... ie.. us all here could be part of the same team and race other teams, with some form of online tracker keeping tabs over time of the best teams and who won individual races

21/03/2012 17:40 - Rob Prange : Managers & Senior Managers can chat

21/03/2012 17:40 - Rob Prange : Seniors can read

21/03/2012 17:40 - Ian Bell : The current intention and I suppose 'X' for the game is a series of racing series. We need to spice that up into an elevator pitch Andy, something more exciting. Then let's pull off 3 key tenets/differentiators/USPs

21/03/2012 17:40 - Roger Lee : the chat I mean

21/03/2012 17:41 - Andy Tudor : Yup, so the end goal is obviously to be the best racing game out there, right?

21/03/2012 17:41 - JF Bouchard : *waves*

21/03/2012 17:42 - Micas : With things nobody has ever seen before.

21/03/2012 17:42 - Andy Tudor : There are other games on 360/PS3 that are obviously seen as being the 'leaders' out there

21/03/2012 17:42 - Are Leistad : Present and eager to see what comes of this first meeting :)

21/03/2012 17:42 - Andy Tudor : (despite our own beliefs ;))

21/03/2012 17:43 - Andy Tudor : On PC there are number of games that each have a their dedicated audience, and obviously on the Wii U there are no competitors currently

21/03/2012 17:43 - Ian Bell : We want to be 'best' in certain defined ways. So having the best graphics/physics/audio etc is a given and we need to aim for that. We also need to aim for the masses and beat GT5 and Forza 4. How do we do that in terms of features is the question.

21/03/2012 17:43 - linfosoma : Hi guys, I just got one question: Do we have a confirmation of which racing modes are making it to the release and which ones are going to be DLC?

21/03/2012 17:43 - Roger Lee : I'm excited to see what the pitstops will be like. The pitcrew is looking mighty fine!!

21/03/2012 17:43 - Ian Bell : linfosoma, please get yourself another name :) But no, that's why we're here, to decide these things

21/03/2012 17:44 - Scott Coffey : I feel the "country roads" concept is a step in the right direction for pulling in more casual players

21/03/2012 17:44 - Casey Ringley : The AutoX track creator idea is one idea I think could put us well ahead of the competition.

21/03/2012 17:44 - Andy Tudor : So there's a huge opportunity there to 1) Unite the PC audience with a title that really excels (which I believe we're doing), 2) Be THE racing game on Wii U, and 3) Give console players a viable alternative to their racing game of choice (and get the competition worried!)

21/03/2012 17:44 - Vittorio Rapa : (Service Message: this chat/conversation will be published on the forum later today, so you may review it)

21/03/2012 17:45 - Micas : It could get confusing it we just shout out ideas.. there should be some organization.. a high level goal/overview that gets divided into branches and iterated on

21/03/2012 17:45 - cornishbrooksy : I think its having the accessability to all, with the option to make it for the truely hardcore

21/03/2012 17:45 - Roger Lee : There seems to be a lot of complaints about the lack of "proper" GT cars. Is there anything in the potential pipeline to appease this crowd?

21/03/2012 17:45 - Andy Garton : I think online has to be a big focus. Forza and GT5 are basically weak in those areas. A more organised system that lets people have properly organised, safe races, yet which isn't so complex and rule heavy as iRacing, would be a winner imo.

21/03/2012 17:45 - Thomas Taschler : also common cars would pull in more casual players

21/03/2012 17:45 - Ian Bell : Yes Roger. On pits I want not only amazing pitstops which constitute both a break in the action but also are exciting on their own terms. Race engineer screaming at you over the headset, you can see him animated (in both senses of the word) outside of the window. I also want amazing pit to car audio.

21/03/2012 17:45 - Andy Tudor : Roger - do you mean officially-licensed GT cars?

21/03/2012 17:46 - Ian Bell : Agree re. online Andy. We can take a lot of cues from iRacing here

21/03/2012 17:46 - Mike Laskey : Consoles are weak traditionally because of cross-compatibility of the server side.

21/03/2012 17:46 - D.man : I think crossplatform racing is one of those things which can make CARS the best

21/03/2012 17:46 - Andy Garton : I think we need a bit of a reboot on licensing also. So far it has been a bit hit and miss. We need to come up with a focused design that includes a wish list of the cars and tracks we need, then approach them. We've done it the other way round so far.

21/03/2012 17:46 - Roger Lee : I just hear it on the forum Andy. I'm not sure they would need to be licensed, but obviously that would be ideal.

21/03/2012 17:47 - Kevin Boland : have we got any 720 kits yet ?

21/03/2012 17:47 - Ian Bell : You can't race cross 1st party platform

21/03/2012 17:47 - Micas : just being able to schedule races in advance will be a big deal

21/03/2012 17:47 - Ian Bell : We can't discuss those things Kevin!

21/03/2012 17:47 - Mike Laskey : if we want on xbox any similar experience to PC then we will need XLSP servers - otherwise xbox multiplayer will be as simple as any other xbox title

21/03/2012 17:48 - Andy Garton : I think cross platform racing would be a bit of a disaster anyway. Different audiences.

21/03/2012 17:48 - Micas : lol 720.. smells NDA issues

21/03/2012 17:48 - Scott Coffey : It would be nice to know which cars/tracks are prohibitively expensive, so we can get that out in the open

21/03/2012 17:48 - Ged Keaveney : yep 1st party server features are very limited

21/03/2012 17:48 - cornishbrooksy : 720.....interesting

21/03/2012 17:48 - Andy Tudor : @Micas - Part of the social network planned will allow you to manage teammates, recruit new ones, schedule upcoming events, see member activity etc..

21/03/2012 17:48 - Andy Garton : I'd also like us to major on third party device and software support, including mobile devices. None of the mass market games have done that well yet.

21/03/2012 17:49 - Andy Garton : Can we ban the words "network" and "social" from the game design please Andy? :)

21/03/2012 17:49 - Ian Bell : We really don't want to go Windows live so I'd remove cross PC Xbox from the list also

21/03/2012 17:49 - Roger Lee : yes andy especially smart phones

21/03/2012 17:49 - FcZenitFan : Yeah, Android and iOS support would be good!

21/03/2012 17:49 - Andy Tudor : lol

21/03/2012 17:50 - linfosoma : Thanks for that, GFWL is the worst.

21/03/2012 17:50 - Rob Prange : I agree, those 3rd party apps & tools for other sims on iOS & Android devices are hugely popular..there's definetely demand

21/03/2012 17:50 - Micas : I can't imagine it running on a phone

21/03/2012 17:50 - Ian Bell : Yes, there's easy money there and I think we can add functionality that justifies it

21/03/2012 17:50 - Roger Lee : Back to GT cars. Is it legal to recreate a Corvette model and name it something else?

21/03/2012 17:51 - Ian Bell : The game doesn't need to be on the phone

21/03/2012 17:51 - cornishbrooksy : maybe not the game running on the phone...but a supplementary app...telemetry display, that kind of thing

21/03/2012 17:51 - Ian Bell : but things like leaderboards, setup analysis, maybe replays ghosts etc

21/03/2012 17:51 - FcZenitFan : not the game, app support of course

21/03/2012 17:51 - Thomas Taschler : the racing community I am part of is crying for a GT2 car (*hint* porsche *hint)

21/03/2012 17:51 - Andy Garton : :) Not running it on a phone Micas, running live telemetry on the phone screen, lap times, engineer chat, blah blah, potential is endless.

21/03/2012 17:51 - Ian Bell : Roger

21/03/2012 17:51 - Rob Prange : and telemetry/data display functionality

21/03/2012 17:51 - Mike Laskey : yup people enjoy managing their league, profile , scheduling races and so on from mobile

21/03/2012 17:52 - Ged Keaveney : telemetry/setup stuff to muck about with whilst you're on the train to work in the morning would be good on smart phones.

21/03/2012 17:52 - Ian Bell : the legal definition is this. For anything that is a fixed structure, we can replicate it exactly and only the name needs changing if they've trademarked it. If it's a movable item then we need to make three changes to the shape and rename it.

21/03/2012 17:52 - cornishbrooksy : i could see that being a BIG feature

21/03/2012 17:53 - Andy Garton : I'd like to see us make a commitment up front also that the game design will necessarily vary per platform. There's tons we can do on PC that we can't do on console. Big publishers tend to accept defeat on PC versions and just say they won't make money so let's just do a console port. I think a top notch PC online focused racing sim CAN make money.

21/03/2012 17:53 - Ian Bell : Anyway, let's focus guys

21/03/2012 17:53 - Ian Bell : The current design as a series of series, are we all happy with this??

21/03/2012 17:53 - Roger Lee : So we could do a Porche then, rename it to something cool, change a few things and slap some fake decals on it. I'm all for that. Remember rFactor originally had made up cars and tracks.

21/03/2012 17:54 - Ian Bell : Yes/No/Explain

21/03/2012 17:54 - Thomas Taschler : yes to the series thing :)

21/03/2012 17:55 - Micas : series of series.. yes.. trying to model real series would be great, with the ability to scale time/length, etc. I hate 3 laps races, but others might want that.. scale for all options

21/03/2012 17:55 - Andy Garton : Series of series isn't exciting me. Perhaps it's the base to build on though.

21/03/2012 17:55 - Roger Lee : Yes to series

21/03/2012 17:55 - cornishbrooksy : yes, i like this progression feeling. obviously would be great if we could get some licensed stuff in, F3, or V8 supercars, or so on, but realistically it wont all be licesensed (F1 for example)

21/03/2012 17:55 - Thomas Taschler : the more options the better

21/03/2012 17:55 - Are Leistad : @ Andy Garton - yes, differentiation on platforms (more stuff on PC) is fine since there will be no cross platform play anyway.

21/03/2012 17:55 - FcZenitFan : Yes

21/03/2012 17:55 - Scott Coffey : I would only suggest that we make it fairly easy to get out of the initial "kart" series. My gut feeling is that they won't be very popular.

21/03/2012 17:55 - Ian Bell : What's not exciting, how do we improve it Andy?

21/03/2012 17:56 - Micas : @AG, what would be exciting?

21/03/2012 17:56 - linfosoma : I would love a racing series, but I think it should have a structure, PC racing sims really lack in any sort of offline career features.

21/03/2012 17:56 - Graham Hawkins : A series of series providing there is choice and not linearity within it, and nothing is compulsory. Hi BTW.

21/03/2012 17:56 - Casey Ringley : I think we miss out a bit on the grassroots level with the current series of series setup.

21/03/2012 17:56 - Andy Tudor : Multiple series means you can specialise in something you really love (but someone else may be indifferent to) and also gives plenty of variety and replay ability in the game. By incorporating multiple series too, it expands the potential appeal for players beyond competitive titles

21/03/2012 17:56 - LuBu : Yes... just have to make use of the cars that will make it into the game, something that GT lacks IMO.

21/03/2012 17:56 - Ian Bell : Scott, agreed on teh karts, we should have something like a formula ford/renault as an optional starter and karts as optional trainers IMO

21/03/2012 17:56 - Andy Garton : Just feels like it's been done a thousand times before (perhaps because it's good :) ).

21/03/2012 17:57 - Micas : not sure what else you can do but series of series on a racing game.. unless it's like just rally or something like that

21/03/2012 17:57 - Rob Prange : it's the natural way a racing career works in the real life...moving up through the ranks...so it makes sense I think

21/03/2012 17:57 - Ian Bell : I disagree Andy. It was done in Toca way back but I had to listen to some annoying Scottish bloke

21/03/2012 17:57 - cornishbrooksy : variety is key

21/03/2012 17:57 - Mike Laskey : for me it's all about leagues, friends, leagues battling each other and scheduling those challenges

21/03/2012 17:57 - Ian Bell : I think it's time for it to be revived with proper quality

21/03/2012 17:57 - Thomas Taschler : or seat cup, "slow" cars

21/03/2012 17:57 - Roger Lee : Yes, I don't like karts we need an alternate starting series.

21/03/2012 17:57 - Ian Bell : Mikes mentioning social with other terms Andy

21/03/2012 17:57 - Andy Garton : It's not the full career, but I'd love to see a scenario mode - preset race (or indeed qual) setups where you get dropped in to the car and have to achieve something, ranging from taking Eau Rouge flat to winning LeMans.

21/03/2012 17:58 - Ian Bell : Yes, for starter, maybe also a Mini Cooper challenge

21/03/2012 17:58 - Robert Dibley : I think the series of series approach is good, my particular preference is that it allows me to choose to focus on a particular area, or develop gradually, as I seem to need a lot of practice.

21/03/2012 17:58 - Ian Bell : Andy, agree on scenarios

21/03/2012 17:58 - linfosoma : Toca 3 had a fantastic career, I would love to see you guys build up on something like that.

21/03/2012 17:58 - Ian Bell : AndyT, add that in please

21/03/2012 17:58 - cornishbrooksy : Is it realistic to have this vast range of series though?

21/03/2012 17:59 - Andy Garton : I don't dislike it at all, just not grabbing me - Codemasters have done that for all their recent games really.

21/03/2012 17:59 - Scott Coffey : Are we still planning on doing rally? Because that seems like a fairly big departure from where we are thus far

21/03/2012 17:59 - Mike Laskey : we can run official race series (sponsored by companies perhaps) for players to build their confidence, move forward in their racing 'career' and advance their reputation

21/03/2012 17:59 - Ged Keaveney : Agree with Rob for the same reasons, helps progression at different skill levels

21/03/2012 17:59 - Andy Tudor : I've mentioned Scenario Mode on the forum already - would be similar to Fight Night where you're placed into specific scenarios from the past to re-play them. Would be a separate mode from the main game though

21/03/2012 17:59 - Micas : scenarios have the wiff of "arcade" to it

21/03/2012 17:59 - Scott Coffey : I would ask the same question as cornishbrooky

21/03/2012 17:59 - Ian Bell : Scott, on rally I think we should do it as a DLC, or cut it. Or do it as a separate game. We'll have a ton of content already

21/03/2012 17:59 - Ian Bell : Thoughts??

21/03/2012 17:59 - Andy Garton : If we do it better, with more variety (which doesn't mean more content, just better selected), it could be a winner still.

21/03/2012 18:00 - Andy Tudor : (Will add to the Overview though)

21/03/2012 18:00 - Are Leistad : I agree on the sentiments w.r.t. karts - whatever you do, make sure nobody get stuck in, and put off by, the kart career.

21/03/2012 18:00 - Ian Bell : Brooksy, Yes,w ith our tech we can handle it

21/03/2012 18:00 - Robert Dibley : The deciding factor for what is realistic in this case would be manpower to produce all the required locations and vehicles - code side requires very little to support many different series types

21/03/2012 18:00 - Roger Lee : This may sound dumb, but how about a career that is an expansion of the Greger Huttu experience. A publicity stunt that turns sim racer into real racer?

21/03/2012 18:00 - Roger Lee : We could all relate to that!!

21/03/2012 18:00 - Scott Coffey : I agree with rally as DLC

21/03/2012 18:00 - Micas : agree, leave rally out of base game.. think about it later as DLC or just cut

21/03/2012 18:00 - Jan Frischkorn : rally is something completely different with so many extras. i agree that it should be DLC or cut

21/03/2012 18:01 - Ian Bell : Yes Rob, and for something like a notLemans we can get away with just a few car variations

21/03/2012 18:01 - Jan Frischkorn : or we would have to cut things from standard racing

21/03/2012 18:01 - cornishbrooksy : Im not speaking about tech as such...but time to develop...a large range of tracks and having more than a couple of cars for each series...this will take a lot of time to produce the material surely

21/03/2012 18:01 - Thomas Taschler : @roger something like GT Academy?

21/03/2012 18:01 - Ian Bell : Rally DLC or Cut, vote now :)

21/03/2012 18:01 - Robert Dibley : yup, much as I enjoy rally games, I do think rally is different enough to warrant splitting it out

21/03/2012 18:01 - Ged Keaveney : I think the idea of it being a separate game has mileage, we've got no problems with the amount of content, let's get some mileage out of it, create a secondary brand with it too

21/03/2012 18:01 - Rob Prange : definetely DLC, would sell masses I think.. so many people craving for a good rally title

21/03/2012 18:01 - Roger Lee : Never heard of that Thomas

21/03/2012 18:02 - Casey Ringley : Agreed, Jan. Cut rally to be its own game

21/03/2012 18:02 - cornishbrooksy : DLC rally, would be amazing to have it in with the CARS graphics and physics

21/03/2012 18:02 - Scott Coffey : I don't see it as either/or :)

21/03/2012 18:02 - Andy Garton : Regarding "whiff of arcade" - I know what you mean Micas, but at some point we have to start letting that smell in a little, especially on console. Just because we have gameplay features that you can't necessarily do in real life doesn't mean it's not a sim - the events would still be in perfectly modelled (physically and graphically) real cars on real tracks.

21/03/2012 18:02 - LuBu : DLC

21/03/2012 18:02 - Thomas Taschler : DLC

21/03/2012 18:02 - Sven Moll : vote from me, Rally would be interesting. Though difficult to get the physics right

21/03/2012 18:02 - Mike Laskey : agreed on rally, big enough to be separate game

21/03/2012 18:02 - Ivo Franic : Rally cut until we can do it properly

21/03/2012 18:02 - Robert Dibley : can I have a 3rd option, separate product using the same engine

21/03/2012 18:02 - Are Leistad : Yes, rally as DLC sounds good - or even a sparate game/upgrade. A half baked rally is worse than no rally.

21/03/2012 18:02 - Micas : I think if we decide to cut rally in this meeting, the unwashed masses will be upset.. :)

21/03/2012 18:02 - Ivo Franic : or a separate title

21/03/2012 18:02 - Ralph Hummerich : DLC or a "spin off" brand

21/03/2012 18:02 - Micas : oh dear.. this is going on the forum.. whoops!

21/03/2012 18:03 - Andy Tudor : I hope the player experience would be as such: You choose from one of three Career starting points (Kart/Touring/Drift/Formula Renault etc..) and then have a calendar to work through like FIFA. You can accept/reject offers to switch to another team or even discipline (ie.. you're in GT2 and a GT1 team wants you to drive for them), or stay where you were and continually try to win the championship each year.

21/03/2012 18:03 - E.K. : Hi, I am late and DLC

21/03/2012 18:03 - Andreas Moll : maybe make one or 2 track part of the base game

21/03/2012 18:03 - Andreas Moll : hen DLC

21/03/2012 18:03 - Andreas Moll : then I mean

21/03/2012 18:03 - Graham Hawkins : DLC

21/03/2012 18:03 - Micas : like @AT's suggestion

21/03/2012 18:04 - Andy Garton : We're not deciding anything here afaik, just discussing.

21/03/2012 18:04 - Andy Tudor : I think Rally is a nice evolution of other racing disciplines but is worthy of its own DLC/expansion pack definitely

21/03/2012 18:04 - Thomas Taschler : @roger check your pms :)

21/03/2012 18:04 - D.man : Is current engine able to give us realistic rally racing? If not then just forget it for now

21/03/2012 18:04 - Ian Bell : OK, Rally to DLC for now. We should look into design 3 months before ship of pCARs

21/03/2012 18:04 - Robert Dibley : "half baked rally is worse than no rally" - I totally agree - mind you the same goes for pretty much anything

21/03/2012 18:04 - Andy Garton : Plus time is up :)

21/03/2012 18:05 - Ian Bell : Do any of the other proposed series stand out as something to cut or DLC? Are we missing any series we really should have??

21/03/2012 18:05 - Andy Garton : I would do rallycross as DLC, rally needs a game on its own imo.

21/03/2012 18:05 - Roger Lee : Thanks Thomas will look at

21/03/2012 18:06 - Ian Bell : AndyG, good suggestion. rallycross would be ace fun

21/03/2012 18:06 - Ian Bell : And more suited to a DLC

21/03/2012 18:06 - Mark Adams : was just about to say the same thing Mr G

21/03/2012 18:06 - cornishbrooksy : Rallycross will have a relatively small market i feel

21/03/2012 18:06 - Roger Lee : Whatever series we do they need the proper quality and polish

21/03/2012 18:06 - Rob Prange : how about that Ghymkana (sp) stuff for consoles?

21/03/2012 18:06 - Mark Adams : would be a litmus test as DLC doing rallycross

21/03/2012 18:06 - Rob Prange : seems to be hugely popular

21/03/2012 18:07 - Andy Tudor : Drift/Gymkhana would be another discipline to move to DLC also

21/03/2012 18:07 - Micas : I just want to feel like I'm a driver in a real car.. at a real track..with a real crew.. and real consquences

21/03/2012 18:07 - Are Leistad : Rallycross is huge fun - I think the format would be popular!

21/03/2012 18:07 - Carborati : How about making both rally and rally cross? Rally cross is a load of fun :)

21/03/2012 18:07 - linfosoma : I would really like it if drifting could make it into the game, there's pretty much zero competition and it has broad appeal.

21/03/2012 18:07 - LuBu : SuperGT?

21/03/2012 18:07 - Roger Lee : Rally is very poplular, it just needs to be done right all the way thru

21/03/2012 18:07 - Graham Hawkins : Everyone will love rallycross since its been on TG!

21/03/2012 18:07 - Andy Garton : drifting has broad appeal? My arse (edit that bit Vitt).

21/03/2012 18:07 - Ian Bell : OK, let's discuss rallycross tomorrow.

21/03/2012 18:07 - Kytt : Hello everyone. Most important is that rally is coming, there are people waiting for it

21/03/2012 18:08 - Micas : drifting is so niche.. I personally loathe it

21/03/2012 18:08 - Scott Coffey : I'm ambivilent about drift, but I doubt it would cost much to include it...

21/03/2012 18:08 - Ian Bell : Brainstorm on the elevator pitch please. The 'X'.

21/03/2012 18:08 - cornishbrooksy : Gymkhana would go with drifting maybe....it would be good as DLC, def riding the Ken Block wave of popularity

21/03/2012 18:08 - Carborati : Combined tarmac and gravel :)

21/03/2012 18:08 - Scott Coffey : lol micas

21/03/2012 18:08 - Ian Bell : I don't like drift at all myself

21/03/2012 18:08 - Andy Garton : Project CARS - it's fucking ace.

21/03/2012 18:08 - Ian Bell : With drift, my feeling is allow it as an option within the main game, in testing etc

21/03/2012 18:08 - Ian Bell : great one Andy

21/03/2012 18:08 - Ian Bell : but maybe not good for a poster outside schools

21/03/2012 18:08 - Mike Laskey : drifting is an abomination of motorsport (imo!)

21/03/2012 18:09 - Roger Lee : I don't do drifting so I don't really care if its in or not. I don't believe it has all that big of following.

21/03/2012 18:09 - Scott Coffey : marketing isn't your forte?

21/03/2012 18:09 - E.K. : Just taking Codemasters as an example I am not sure if it would be a good idea to put all different racing types into one package, even though through DLCs

21/03/2012 18:09 - Ian Bell : Mr T

21/03/2012 18:09 - Ian Bell : elevator pitch

21/03/2012 18:09 - Kytt : Rallycross is like appetizer and get people excited.

21/03/2012 18:10 - linfosoma : I'll take that as a no then :p

21/03/2012 18:10 - Casey Ringley : Drift scoring as DLC makes good sense. Anyone can screw about drifting cars in other game modes for fun, but doing the judging, tandem, etc is enough to justify DLC

21/03/2012 18:10 - Ian Bell : Agreed Casey

21/03/2012 18:10 - Andy Tudor : Currently the X is: "The Ultimate Driver Journey" which corresponds to the game having the 1) Ultimate content (ie.. a huge variety of racing series), 2) Ultimate features (ie.. everything from dynamic time of day/weather to pitstops to team management etc..) and 3) the Ultimate career allowing you to either concentrate on one thing or progress through the ranks

21/03/2012 18:10 - Ian Bell : Let's make that call unless there are any severe objections

21/03/2012 18:10 - Andy Garton : Seriously, the X is a tricky one. The basics are that we're making the most accurate looking, sounding and driving racing sim. It has crazy levels of detail (marbles, leaves, all that shit), as well as great online play. Features like awesome pit to car, race engineers, etc also. None of that is an elevator pitch though.

21/03/2012 18:10 - JF Bouchard : I would be in favor of focusing on more traditional series and forms of motorsport and keeping the niche stuff as DLC or a practice mode (in basic form, not a full series)

21/03/2012 18:11 - Scott Coffey : I rather like the "become a legend" concept from the original design write-up... expand on that somehow?

21/03/2012 18:11 - Ian Bell : I like the drivers journey thing

21/03/2012 18:11 - Ian Bell : BEcome a legend is a much more exciting way of putting it

21/03/2012 18:11 - Stuart Hunt : One of the problems with drifting is that we had Pro drifters help tune it to a level where they thought it was realistic, and people still said it was totally unrealistic

21/03/2012 18:11 - Ian Bell : become a racing legend

21/03/2012 18:11 - Micas : yes on the ultimate driver journey.. exactly what I want

21/03/2012 18:11 - Andy Garton : It's not bad Andy, but not fab either imo. I have nothing better yet though.

21/03/2012 18:11 - Andy Tudor : So if you were to describe the game to someone you could simply say "It's got everything the competition has, and more. It's the ultimate package."

21/03/2012 18:11 - Micas : good sub-title as well that

21/03/2012 18:12 - Andy Garton : It's a good one to throw open to the member base imo to get some brainstorming ideas going. (The X I mean.)

21/03/2012 18:12 - Andy Garton : If you said that to them Andy they'd probably do a cough which sounded like "bullshit" :)

21/03/2012 18:12 - Micas : I wanted to punch that chubby "pro drifter" after the first few races

21/03/2012 18:12 - Dave Flynn : Agreed on the 'become a legend' being a good way to put things :)

21/03/2012 18:13 - Andy Tudor : Because in a side-by-side comparison unfortunately people are literally going to be checking boxes... "Does Game A have this feature compared to Project CASRS?" In the Overview, we do

21/03/2012 18:13 - Are Leistad : @ Micas - get in line :-))

21/03/2012 18:13 - cornishbrooksy : im vaaauuggghhnnn gitttttiiinnn junior....

21/03/2012 18:13 - Ian Bell : Become a Racing Legend. Let's use that for now guys, it's strong IMO

21/03/2012 18:14 - Andy Tudor : We'll never win the "Number of cars in the box" war so we have to go beyond that. The INSANE amount of detail in everything (from the Leonus' exhausts to the new lighting) is one area to focus on and market

21/03/2012 18:14 - Roger Lee : I like the racing legend thing

21/03/2012 18:14 - JF Bouchard : motorsport legend?

21/03/2012 18:14 - Dave Flynn : "Your life beind the wheel" is another marketing phrae?

21/03/2012 18:14 - Micas : speaking of checking off the tick boxes.. how much effort do you put behind a focus on meta scores?

21/03/2012 18:14 - Andy Garton : That's a good point Andy, the under body detailing definitely needs shouting about.

21/03/2012 18:14 - Dave Flynn : *behind

21/03/2012 18:15 - Are Leistad : I like the sound of the "legend" thing for a compelling single player /gaming/ experience.

21/03/2012 18:15 - Andy Garton : just don't mention we have to cut it all on console :)

21/03/2012 18:15 - Roger Lee : I think the pitstops alone will put it over the top. I've been waiting so long for that to be done right in a sim.

21/03/2012 18:15 - Thomas Taschler : the multiplayer is very important

21/03/2012 18:15 - Scott Coffey : Project CARS... reality squared :)

21/03/2012 18:15 - E.K. : true

21/03/2012 18:16 - Roger Lee : yes multiplayer needs to be solid with minimal lag.

21/03/2012 18:16 - Ian Bell : OK guys,w e have 14 minutes left

21/03/2012 18:16 - Andy Garton : pit stops ... yaaaaaawn :)

21/03/2012 18:16 - Ian Bell : throw in any brainstorm ideas you have now

21/03/2012 18:17 - Andy Tudor : I think when you combine tire wear/fuel, dynamic localised weather, pit stops, and Pit2Car audio you've got a very special experience there

21/03/2012 18:17 - Mark Adams : "Pushing the boundries" & "beyond Limits"

21/03/2012 18:17 - linfosoma : Managing a team would be fun, sponsors, team mates, that sort of thing

21/03/2012 18:17 - Kevin Boland : race commentary

21/03/2012 18:17 - Micas : from an organizational point of view, I think just start with Andy Tudor's ideas and hammer it out from there

21/03/2012 18:17 - Ian Bell : Yes T, if it's called out with pt to car radio all the better

21/03/2012 18:18 - Are Leistad : For the brainstorming thing: Country Roads DLC with productions cars bundle

21/03/2012 18:18 - Sven Moll : get in superbike perhaps?

21/03/2012 18:18 - cornishbrooksy : what is the view on production cars?

21/03/2012 18:18 - Ian Bell : Are, on top of teh two going in or do we pull those off to DMC?

21/03/2012 18:18 - Roger Lee : @Andy :a18:

21/03/2012 18:18 - Ian Bell : My feeling is we should have 2 in teh initial release as teasers

21/03/2012 18:18 - Scott Coffey : Every "review" done so far has pointed out our superior graphics, so I figure that sells itself. We should promote other areas of uniqueness.

21/03/2012 18:18 - Micas : oh.. and another plug for voice recognition while I'm thinking about it

21/03/2012 18:19 - Roger Lee : How hard would Bikes be to implement?

21/03/2012 18:19 - Ian Bell : Brooksy, lots of production cars on teh way

21/03/2012 18:19 - Graham Hawkins : I liked the simulated 'Trackday' idea that was floated on the forum at some point. Multiplayer run what you brung chill out time.

21/03/2012 18:19 - Are Leistad : Ahh, good point Ian - don't really know. Maybe one or two in the base game as an appetizer?

21/03/2012 18:19 - Thomas Taschler : server side recorded demo/replay of the whole race, being played and recorded on a poweful home pc, change player/camera...

21/03/2012 18:19 - Roger Lee : yes voice recognition along with the pit2car!!

21/03/2012 18:19 - Robert Dibley : Bike physics != car physics, lots of strange differences

21/03/2012 18:20 - cornishbrooksy : at the end of the day graphics sell, its what people "see" first. we have that now...its beautiful

21/03/2012 18:20 - Ian Bell : I think pit to car with some limited voice recognition could be fun

21/03/2012 18:20 - Ian Bell : On production cars, do we allow upgrades or not???

21/03/2012 18:20 - Andy Tudor : Would be fine on Kinect - works well in other games

21/03/2012 18:20 - Casey Ringley : AudoX track creator with a marketplace for sharing plus leaderboards. :)

21/03/2012 18:20 - Scott Coffey : I like Thomas's idea too. I would LOVE to see some "professionall" announced race events.

21/03/2012 18:20 - linfosoma : No upgrades, too much work, little payoff

21/03/2012 18:20 - Ged Keaveney : != means "not equal to" for any non-coder types out there (not a coder meeting rob :))

21/03/2012 18:21 - Are Leistad : Yeah, upgrades for production cars - it'

21/03/2012 18:21 - Scott Coffey : I like the idea of upgrades

21/03/2012 18:21 - Kevin Boland : Friends as you pit crew.. they can read your telemetry and recommend adjustments

21/03/2012 18:21 - Robert Dibley : we really need to get over to people that it is that beautiful when they play as well, not like certain other games, where its only looking that good when in photo mode

21/03/2012 18:21 - Are Leistad : It's almost a sub game in itself.

21/03/2012 18:21 - Ivo Franic : exactly Rob

21/03/2012 18:21 - Andy Garton : Racing drivers school done well would be in for me.

21/03/2012 18:21 - Andy Tudor : Personally, the coastal roads are a nice diversion. They're so pretty that they feel like rewards in themselves; somewhere I can 'drive' as opposed to 'race' so I'd have them unlocked via your Career (or purchasable ahead of time from the in-game Store)

21/03/2012 18:22 - Ivo Franic : keepcomparing and bringing that up, the the consoles dont look like the screenshot/renders

21/03/2012 18:22 - Ged Keaveney : but also focus on the physics and handling. A lot of press are seeing the graphics then raving about that and not getting to the best bits.

21/03/2012 18:22 - Roger Lee : no upgrades!!

21/03/2012 18:22 - Micas : Is Ben too expensive to record for driving school

21/03/2012 18:22 - LuBu : Yes, upgrades are a cornerstone of the console games, customisation is everywhere

21/03/2012 18:22 - Mike Laskey : i'm not sure about upgrades; if done at simulator fidelity it will lead to far more complexity in the racing, vehicle management, car setups, league administration, event config and so on

21/03/2012 18:22 - Ian Bell : Micas, no, we can make use of Ben here

21/03/2012 18:23 - Ian Bell : Mike, I'd say no upgrades to give us time to put more cars in

21/03/2012 18:23 - Scott Coffey : Good point Mike

21/03/2012 18:23 - Graham Hawkins : +1 for really good Driving school

21/03/2012 18:23 - Casey Ringley : perhaps some real world setup aids. Shaker table for tuning suspension, aero map output from wind tunnels

21/03/2012 18:23 - Andy Garton : Probably not too expensive Micas but I'd like to see us hook up with somebody like Jim Russel - get real instructors to script/narrate/guide.

21/03/2012 18:23 - Andy Tudor : Would be nice to add more (snowy mountain passes, just-outside-of-the-city canyons etc..) so two in the base pack and more afterwards at regular intervals would be okay

21/03/2012 18:24 - Micas : upgrades force you to put a rating number on a car, as in shift 2, in order to try and equalize for multiplayer

21/03/2012 18:24 - Are Leistad : @ Mike Laskey : make production cars w/upgrades a racing class of it's own?

21/03/2012 18:24 - Roger Lee : Ben's feedback thread should be released with the game to show people how pCARS got where it is physics wise.

21/03/2012 18:24 - cornishbrooksy : rolling road...and controlling the car on it...i dont know why, but id find it enjoyable

21/03/2012 18:24 - Scott Coffey : Good idea Andy T... my thoughts exactly

21/03/2012 18:25 - Casey Ringley : Would love to have no visual upgrades. If we can get away with that it would allow us to focus much more clearly on regular car production

21/03/2012 18:25 - Roger Lee : How many ovals are you guys planning. And what types?

21/03/2012 18:25 - Ralph Hummerich : Agreed with Casey here

21/03/2012 18:25 - Scott Coffey : Zero? :)

21/03/2012 18:25 - Andy Garton : Actually I love that rolling road idea - if we could make it work properly, so you're actually driving the car on the rollers. Would be a fun way to benchmark cars.

21/03/2012 18:26 - Ian Bell : On ovals, I think we need 5 minimum to cover all types

21/03/2012 18:26 - cornishbrooksy : its a simple thing...but gives the user a feeling of control

21/03/2012 18:26 - Ivo Franic : agreed Casey, visual upgrades and mechanical upgrades complicate the whole thing. The cars will al be very different already, we aren't making a car collecting game like Forza or GT5

21/03/2012 18:26 - JF Bouchard : I agree with Casey. Visual upgrades really require a lot of ressources.

21/03/2012 18:26 - Tim Mann : see the dyno output on the rolling road

21/03/2012 18:26 - Roger Lee : I've been an oval sim racer for 10 years and a 100% iRacing member. I would like to help with this design path.

21/03/2012 18:26 - Ian Bell : I think we might get away with 8 or so for a season, 3 being 'derivatives'

21/03/2012 18:26 - Andy Tudor : I'm indifferent about upgrades. They're a good idea and give you micro-transactions to purchase in between the big car purchases so you get regular feedback that you're progressing (which is nice). But ultimately it turns into a grind for cash, and multiplayer simply becomes "Who spent the most" as opposed to an equal playing field where it's about driver skill and tuning ability

21/03/2012 18:27 - Ged Keaveney : maybe a daft idea but what about a cut down 1 track/vehicle demo, especially on consoles on Live/PSN so that people can see the game in action and the handling too. Similar to the GT5 prologue. Whip up some excitement the project and show it as a proper contender. Also will stop people thinking about Shift.

21/03/2012 18:27 - Ian Bell : Let's say no upgrades then, more cars

21/03/2012 18:27 - Andy Tudor : Agree on the rolling road - should be part of your Tuning area, and a dedicated area you can drive up to on the Test Track

21/03/2012 18:27 - Ged Keaveney : Upgrades are a pain from a tech point of view too (mainly consoles) take up lots of memory and are slow to load as we can't package them for optimal loading easily. I'd rather avoid them.

21/03/2012 18:27 - Micas : I'm okay with not having upgrades or visual upgrades.. I rather like the idea of uniformity in multiplayer

21/03/2012 18:27 - Ian Bell : We should definitely have a demo Ged yes.

21/03/2012 18:28 - Are Leistad : I did post an idea on how to automatically benchmark/classify (upgradeable) cars by way of a behind the scenes "AI" test regime.

21/03/2012 18:28 - Scott Coffey : Once we get the physics nailed down, a small demo would be awesome

21/03/2012 18:29 - Ian Bell : 1 minute warning chaps.

21/03/2012 18:29 - Ian Bell : We'll pick off unresolved issues tomorrow

21/03/2012 18:29 - E.K. : FFB and physics on the same level as graphics

21/03/2012 18:29 - Micas : Andy G had suggested a full featured, time limited, demo.. which I agree with

21/03/2012 18:29 - Scott Coffey : Is there a way to preserve a chat log here, or will this be posted?

21/03/2012 18:29 - Micas : thx for the meeting.. this was fun

21/03/2012 18:29 - Scott Coffey : And when is next meeting?

21/03/2012 18:29 - Roger Lee : had fun

21/03/2012 18:29 - Are Leistad : I'm fine with no upgrades, but it has very wide appeal, esp. on consoles.

21/03/2012 18:29 - Ian Bell : We'll post the chat to the forum right away

21/03/2012 18:30 - linfosoma : Thanks for having us guys.

21/03/2012 18:30 - cornishbrooksy : Thank you! I feel like i contributed with rolling road! haha

21/03/2012 18:30 - Andy Tudor : Chat Log can be saved, yes

21/03/2012 18:30 - Ged Keaveney : Console demo would be further down the road, not in the short term.

21/03/2012 18:30 - Roger Lee : not a one hour limit, like 25 hours

21/03/2012 18:30 - Ian Bell : Next meeting same time tomorrow. thanks for your time everyone. We got through quite a few more points than i expected we would. I think this worked nicely.

21/03/2012 18:30 - Roger Lee : 24

21/03/2012 18:30 - Ian Bell : Times up, bye all :)

21/03/2012 18:30 - Andy Garton : I can't make 4.30 tomorrow so have fun chaps and I'll enjoy the log.

21/03/2012 18:30 - Scott Coffey : thanks!

21/03/2012 18:31 - Sven Moll : demo must be protected please...so nobody can steal meshes or texturemaps

21/03/2012 18:31 - Thomas Taschler : thanks :)

21/03/2012 18:31 - Are Leistad : Thanks everyone - that was interesting :-)

21/03/2012 18:31 - Andy Tudor : Bye all!

21/03/2012 18:31 - Ivo Franic : Cya

21/03/2012 18:31 - Andreas Moll : cu

Tom Servo
21-03-2012, 22:31
In regards to gameplay, a career mode is nice and all, but I loathe these. Personally, I don't want to go through grinding various career stages, to finally unlock the desired car and possibly track. Content should be unlocked from the get-go, so that one can bypass career mode.

Raphael Klapczynski
21-03-2012, 22:36
In regards to gameplay, a career mode is nice and all, but I loathe these. Personally, I don't want to go through grinding various career stages, to finally unlock the desired car and possibly track. Content should be unlocked from the get-go, so that one can bypass career mode.

That should be no prob.?

Career-Mode: (The emotional - Mode) Start from the beginning as beginner with Kart or other desired car ...
Quick-Race: Take your car you want and your track/opponents and race.
Season-Mode: Start a Season with your desired class of car

Tom Servo
21-03-2012, 22:40
Another thing, in regards to Gymkhana... As far as putting it away into DLC goes, I'm not sure if it's worthwhile. I guess a full-blown career mode maybe. But it might be worthwhile to have a single arena available in the base game. I'm sure a bunch of AWD cars will be offered, and with diffs set to locking in the setup (front, rear, center), one could replicate it with high powered AWD cars in the base game.


That should be no prob.?

Career-Mode: Start from the beginning as beginner with Kart or other desired car ...
Quick-Race: Take your car you want and your track/opponents and race.
Season-Mode: Start a Season with your desired class of car
I'm just drawing on past experience from SHIFT2, where you had to advance the ranks to unlock specific tracks and cars. Whether that's a valid thing to compare to or not, is another matter. I rather not see it repeated.

Remco Van Dijk
21-03-2012, 22:44
When scanning through all this there was this small thing nudging me from the back of my head saying something about getting some community thing into the offline thing, e.g. that even though you're playing offline, you'll be racing against teams/drivers that are basically people from the community and whom you race and how strong they are in your game depends on how they are doing in their own offline careers. Hence, you're playing offline but still in some sort of big community, and by doing well in your offline career you'll know that you'll be featuring in other people's games :).

I haven't thought this through at all, just writing down what the little voice was whispering :)

Christian Schegtel
21-03-2012, 22:48
21/03/2012 17:55 - Andy Garton : Series of series isn't exciting me. Perhaps it's the base to build on though.

21/03/2012 17:56 - Andy Garton : Just feels like it's been done a thousand times before (perhaps because it's good ).

I'm with you on this one, Andy... I pushed for "something else" in the game design forum... I feel doing "just" a series and then Practice, Qualy and Race it's been done to death already and nobody cares about it besides us.

IMO, we need to add RPG characteristics to the cars themselves (damage repair: -2hp power +3Kg weight for rebuild), a basic economy system (resource management based on sponsorship €) , a tech tree (that dictates series level) and minigames sprinkled all around.

buzzin_nice
21-03-2012, 22:54
regarding the cars and licencing issues. could we not have all replica's of top cars different names and then a cough cough unofficial patch file appearing from the unknown that corrects the differing design features and adjust the name correctly?

Ricxs
21-03-2012, 23:09
When scanning through all this there was this small thing nudging me from the back of my head saying something about getting some community thing into the offline thing, e.g. that even though you're playing offline, you'll be racing against teams/drivers that are basically people from the community and whom you race and how strong they are in your game depends on how they are doing in their own offline careers. Hence, you're playing offline but still in some sort of big community, and by doing well in your offline career you'll know that you'll be featuring in other people's games :).

I haven't thought this through at all, just writing down what the little voice was whispering :)

I like it. Adding to it you can choose the option to have all AI cars in your offline career as community ghosts or better word representation. In your career it tracks if you are winning races too easily the next race will have faster community racers.

Or something different AI auto adjusting to keep the difficulty competitive. In Unreal Tournament I always liked the feature to have the AI auto adjust to match your skills.

MacPhisto
21-03-2012, 23:23
I really liked Ian's idea of including the Formula Ford as an alternative carreer starting vehicle. They are simple and a lot of fun.

Michael Pleym
21-03-2012, 23:39
Remco said:
When scanning through all this there was this small thing nudging me from the back of my head saying something about getting some community thing into the offline thing, e.g. that even though you're playing offline, you'll be racing against teams/drivers that are basically people from the community and whom you race and how strong they are in your game depends on how they are doing in their own offline careers. Hence, you're playing offline but still in some sort of big community, and by doing well in your offline career you'll know that you'll be featuring in other people's games .

I haven't thought this through at all, just writing down what the little voice was whispering


I like it. Adding to it you can choose the option to have all AI cars in your offline career as community ghosts or better word representation. In your career it tracks if you are winning races too easily the next race will have faster community racers.

Or something different AI auto adjusting to keep the difficulty competitive. In Unreal Tournament I always liked the feature to have the AI auto adjust to match your skills.

I also like it. Communities ghost laps sets the pace for AI (if it could be done) and they will drive with the skins of the actual ghost car, so if you uploaded your ghost lap in a car with your own custom skin it will be seen by the off line player.

PS. Nice to read the notes from the meeting btw. Many wise things were stated, not only by the devs. This is really progressing to a community assisted racing sim. Hmm, think I have heard that concept before; don't know from where though.:p

Michael Pleym
21-03-2012, 23:57
My idea for this is that we we identify the functions that a driver would normally need to push buttons or do keystrokes for, and map them to a voice pattern. This would put a limit on the number of functions that can be voice activated. For example; if you want to change 4 tires in the next pit stop.. you'd have maybe 3 key strokes to do that. 1. pit command, 2. tire change, 3. number tires. You'd map 1. to a voice activation of "pit", 2. to voice "tires", 3. "four". If you wanted to change 2 tires you'd have 1.,2.,3. = "two", +4. side = "left" or "right". I'd say into the mic, "pit tires two left" and that would setup the crew to change my left side tires at the next stop. If the software didn't understand the command, the crew chief would say "say again, you're breaking up".. we'd have maybe 5 variations of that "i didn't understand what you just said" function so it's not overly repetitive.

So.. just take that concept and apply it to every function that is planned for pit stops and viola.. Car2Pit. Awesome! That's worth 10 metacritic points right there IMO.

"pit fuel 20" - "pit aero downforce 10" - "pit driver change" - "pit tire front pressure 50"

Of course.. if every command is for the pit crew, that could be dropped.. just pressing the Car2Pit button would be the same thing as saying "pit" - but if there were other functions that could be mapped to the voice recognition, then you'd need the "pit" word mapped in.

So as part of the setup process (wheel calibration and so on), you would have the option of setting up the Car2Pit. The game would walk you through each one of the functions and you would speak into the mic to calibrate it. The game would prompt "say the word pit" - and you would speak it... "say the word fuel" - and you would speak it. That would be recorded and used for matching what you speak to the proper function. This would make it so language doesn't matter. You could speak in any language you want and the game would just match it up based on how you calibrated the Car2Pit.

I have no idea if that's possible - but I think it would be awesomely cool.

Would it not be easier for the player if the system asks questions that the player can answer to with short words, preferebly yes or no?

Like when you have pressed the pit command, the system asks you:
- What service do you want?
- Tires!
- Soft or hard? (should be intermidiate or wet when raining)
- Soft!
- Do you want to change all four of them?
- No!
- Two fronts?
- No!
- Two rears?
- Yes?

And so on.

Dan Blamey
22-03-2012, 00:40
When scanning through all this there was this small thing nudging me from the back of my head saying something about getting some community thing into the offline thing, e.g. that even though you're playing offline, you'll be racing against teams/drivers that are basically people from the community and whom you race and how strong they are in your game depends on how they are doing in their own offline careers. Hence, you're playing offline but still in some sort of big community, and by doing well in your offline career you'll know that you'll be featuring in other people's games :).

I haven't thought this through at all, just writing down what the little voice was whispering :)

You mean like this (http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?3603-Career-Rivals-and-Simultaneous-career-streams.)? (But focused more on your ideas of other people being the 'rivals' :)

Matthew Hardwick
22-03-2012, 01:02
I like the idea of rally being a separate game that uses the pCARS branding. Rallycross and maybe that gymkhana crap should be with it due to the shared cars.

PaulC2K
22-03-2012, 01:19
The chat-log makes for a very interesting read, and its good that everyone was on the same page with what was brought up. Im sure there will be occasions where opinions are divided though.
Couple of things i'd like to add on those subjects...

Career Mode
I've always enjoyed a good career mode in a game, i've never been the sort of person to buy a game and go straight online with it and try to race with people who know what they're doing within that games environment. So a solid SP game is important imo, and it'll certainly help for the console market.
I love the idea of a continuous stream of calendar content as brought up on this thread, but i was just wondering how that would work?
- Do you release a new block of season each week/fortnight, and thats all you have access to? (By 'Block' i mean the equivalent of say 2mo's races, so 2-4 new races per class/series type)
- Do you do the above, but keep adding it to ALL previous 'blocks' so 1yr on its a huge calendar??
- Or perhaps you could just have a 4 'block' calendar, so you have the latest and the 3 updates before it.
The 3rd method would at least mean you'd have a decent back-catalogue of races to do in your own time, and a week on the oldest block would be dropped and a new one released.

The events need to feel like more than just a matter of completing them as fast as physically possible in order to gain cash to move through the game, it needs to feel like a real career, with consequences and potential to impress and move up.
It'd also be nice to be able to create multiple careers, even if thats a micro-transaction (but not equal to a game license in price or access), so I can live a split life in single seaters, touring, stock car... without saying 1 driver is doing everything, and without people feel like they have to leave their personal preference (class/type) to experience another.

On the subject of boring early progression, perhaps that could be done by the difficulty level?
Easy = 'Paid' drive, no reputation but you'd get a drive with a solid car in an ok series. Still fairly grass roots though, just 2 steps up the ladder
Hard = Starting at the bottom, earning every step of the journey.
You could still let the user tune their career experience (a lot like the settings currently tweaking driver aggression, speed etc.) but let them decide whether they want a true 'come from nothing' career, or a 'daddy bought me everything' career. I'd rather feel a realistic challenge and struggle, than too easy, but plenty will want fun and thrills.


Rally & Rallycross
I love them for a bit of fun, as im sure plenty of others do, and IMO they'd make great 'Addons', in the traditional sense of the word. You'd buy pCARS and then get the Rally & Rallycross as a separate purchase at say 1/2 regular RRP, but rather than typical DLC which is a couple of cars and a couple of tracks, its a meaningful addon. I think it'd be a real shame to split Rally from a game claiming to offer such a wide race of Motor sports, and either do it half-arsed (poor realism but in release package), underwhelming (done well as DLC, but lacking real depth in content) rather than doing something meaningful and having people really take notice of it.
It could be sold separately, similar to the GT Prologue games, but still retain full & seamless integration into pCARS to enhance the complete game. You'd get an honest price for it, and people would hopefully feel it isnt just tacked on to tick a box. Theres also the option to then sell DLC to that, adding new cars and tracks.
It'd make it profitable, meaningful, and hopefully done realistic.


Gymkhana
This sounds like it'd be simple enough to include within the Auto-X environment, so perhaps that could be done as DLC, releasing new trackside items which would be used in both Auto-X and Gymkhana. There really isnt that much difference between Auto-X and Gymkhana from an equipment angle (Like Football/Soccer & Rugby), it just needs a couple of locations, some new building blocks and it'd make a decent Auto-X & Gymkhana DLC.
edit - We need a giant football in the DLC too, so we can recreate the Top Gear 'Volkswagen Fox vs. Aygo' fun :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIeu7_-iwdw
edit 2 - Just found the original episode, and oh look, theres "Ben Collins - because he's done testing in F1 and ASCAR" AND IS THE STIG!! :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yBITRmNd4I

DLC
Rally aside, i dont think there needs to be other disciplines added as DLC does there? Whether its single seaters, touring, endurance, stock cars, rallying, karting, drifting... they're all aspects i'd imagine will be covered to begin with. The best thing the DLC could do is expand upon those areas, i dont see any popular classes of motorsports which couldnt be covered simply by modelling the right cars & venues. Rallying is the only discipline which heavily differs IMO.
I guess drag racing could be considered (though no reason it couldnt be done with any car and a suitable venue), and after that theres only cruising which is pretty much what the 'Country Roads' thread/track would be all about.


Multiplayer
21/03/2012 17:45 - Andy Garton : I think online has to be a big focus. Forza and GT5 are basically weak in those areas. A more organised system that lets people have properly organised, safe races, yet which isn't so complex and rule heavy as iRacing, would be a winner imo.
This is always a tricky thing to deal with, because different people have different feelings towards whats racing and whats not. I want fair racing, aggressive but fair. Others want fun, especially if you've tried racing on consoles. Shift2 being a perfect example, where ramming was commonplace. Shift 1 seemed to actively encouraged it with its good vs evil type XP awards.
To ensure people get the experience they want, why not create separate areas?? A section where people can find good clean competitive racing, and another where people can be rough and have fun. Im not against people having their kind of fun, but when 1 persons idea of fun ruins half a dozen peoples fun, it cant be good. People may find their 'fun' is ruining other peoples clean races, but that could be dealt with far easier than having a ton of people in 1 server with different understandings of whats fun, and the system making little effort to segment those experiences so people knowingly enter into that server for that experience, and those who dont follow in the spirit know they'll be kicked.
Admins kicking people is fine, but just a common 'were here to race' or 'were here for a laugh' would save a lot of grief and frustration for both parties.


Very much looking forward to reading tomorrows meeting chatlog, and hearing everyone elses thoughts & suggestions afterwards.

Howie_2012
22-03-2012, 01:37
Nice meeting guys!

Please, for the love of god, no Gymkhana, DLC or in GAME!

WallyM
22-03-2012, 01:39
"Ged Keaveney : AndyT, read your bloody notifications you damn trans-sexual."

LOL

Mark Silcock
22-03-2012, 02:06
Great meeting, I will have to get up very early to see them live :P

A questing regarding the no car upgrades decision, I completely understand the complexities of having them in but think it is something most gamers expect to see. Would a compromise of 2 versions of the same car work?

One bog standard and then you save up to turn it into it a stripped out track day car. I don't want to see the silly 1000+hp upgrades but real believable track day mods.

More cars with "Racing Modification" is one of the most requested feature for GT5 on GTPlanet.

WallyM
22-03-2012, 02:12
Now that we have a fair slice of the sim racing community represented here, an unweighted poll/survey would be interesting with the following kinds of questions:

1) Do you race more offline or online?
2) Would you rather race on public servers or in private leagues?
3) Are you interested in career progression, or do you just want to race whatever car you want at any time?
4) Do you like unlocking content?
5) What is your favourite style of car (open wheeler, stock car, GT, "every day" car etc)?
6) Which style of car would you rarely drive (open wheeler, stock car, GT, "every day" car etc)?
etc...

That sort of thing. Get a breakdown with actual percentage figures from the sim racing community we have represented here for each of these aspects, to drive the direction of the development.

Your customers are right here!

PaulC2K
22-03-2012, 02:49
Now that we have a fair slice of the sim racing community represented here, an unweighted poll/survey would be interesting with the following kinds of questions:

1) Do you race more offline or online?
2) Would you rather race on public servers or in private leagues?
3) Are you interested in career progression, or do you just want to race whatever car you want at any time?
4) Do you like unlocking content?
5) What is your favourite style of car (open wheeler, stock car, GT, "every day" car etc)?
6) Which style of car would you rarely drive (open wheeler, stock car, GT, "every day" car etc)?
etc...

That sort of thing. Get a breakdown with actual percentage figures from the sim racing community we have represented here for each of these aspects, to drive the direction of the development.

Your customers are right here!

The only problem is, we dont necessarily reflect the real range of customers here do we. We represent more of a hardcore sim element, there probably isnt a single person on here who's eagerly anticipating the games release on consoles because they probably havent heard of it yet. What about the people who buy games because they see it on the shelf, read a release day review, think the graphics look good, thinks games we consider 'arcade' to be racing sims, or doesnt want to pay 10€ to try and unreleased/incomplete game... they're not here. Some consideration needs to be made for them still, they're no less entitled to some consideration, even if they're not present. The aim should be making a great game that appeals to everyone, gives them what they want from a racing game, without compromising in other departments. Those questions seek to divide opinion too much imo. It shouldnt be what *I* want, cos i'll be an inconsiderate sod and so would many others. Online racing gives a more adrenalin fuelled rush, but i enjoy single player racing, and i'd love someone to take the offline community seriously again, rather than the 'its all about online today' attitude. It doesnt need to be either or, it can be both, there doesnt have to be a right answer and a wrong answer, build an open game and let the users decide how they want to play it.

Polls just out of interest is fair enough, as long as they're not considered accurate for people who cant possibly vote, but could still be the target audience, and have decisions made on them where they get excluded because a hardcore base only want their game their way.

Ryzza5
22-03-2012, 02:50
Interesting read through the chatbox archive and pages of this thread. A couple of random points that stick in my mind:


* SP could be made a tad more interesting if the game connects to the forum servers, gets a list of your 'friends/contacts', and uses their names for AI (perhaps only for people who have the 'AI named after you' perk). AI identities have persistent skills/habits. i.e. players of NFS Porsche might remember "Dylan" was one of the harder AI to beat in some races where you didn't have a fast enough car.

* Users can choose how often to grab new seasons based on how often they play the game. People playing every night may want the calendar to update every week, whereas people who only have time to play once or twice per week would prefer a fortnightly or monthly update. Perhaps those who play less often would earn slightly more money so as to keep pace with others a bit more???

* AntiPiracy suggestions are good, as long as subsequent verification doesn't take forever (NFS Shift/S2U loading times were awful) and aren't otherwise annoying.

* Looking forward to production cars (in the pre-alpha as well as an entry-level league). Would be better able to appreciate the updates to physics and just enjoy driving before attempting to master the track monsters :p

* Would be great if "country roads" were conducive to cruising/chilling when playing online. Perhaps (by way of option), the cars would start on the side of the road, or in a parking lot instead of lining up on a grid. Of course if players do want to race on these roads then they could either do it informally (i.e. "when this message disappears from the text chat everyone goes", or via horn, or a voting system could allow a formal proper grid race to start).

* X-line: Project CARS - For the love of driving. I dunno - maybe something along those lines.


Also I thought there was a tool pack limit on who could/couldn't read these meetings.

Mark Silcock
22-03-2012, 02:59
Also I thought there was a tool pack limit on who could/couldn't read these meetings.

Agreed, these notes shouldn't be copy pasted in a general area if people have paid for the perk to attend the meetings.

Michael Kondos
22-03-2012, 03:04
Can't believe they outed upgrades :S .. Very broad audience enjoy upgrading cars for personalization.. I think it should be put to a poll for many people to decide and not just 5 people or so :P

WallyM
22-03-2012, 03:45
The only problem is, we dont necessarily reflect the real range of customers here do we. We represent more of a hardcore sim element, there probably isnt a single person on here who's eagerly anticipating the games release on consoles because they probably havent heard of it yet. What about the people who buy games because they see it on the shelf, read a release day review, think the graphics look good, thinks games we consider 'arcade' to be racing sims, or doesnt want to pay 10€ to try and unreleased/incomplete game... they're not here. Some consideration needs to be made for them still, they're no less entitled to some consideration, even if they're not present. The aim should be making a great game that appeals to everyone, gives them what they want from a racing game, without compromising in other departments. Those questions seek to divide opinion too much imo. It shouldnt be what *I* want, cos i'll be an inconsiderate sod and so would many others. Online racing gives a more adrenalin fuelled rush, but i enjoy single player racing, and i'd love someone to take the offline community seriously again, rather than the 'its all about online today' attitude. It doesnt need to be either or, it can be both, there doesnt have to be a right answer and a wrong answer, build an open game and let the users decide how they want to play it.

Polls just out of interest is fair enough, as long as they're not considered accurate for people who cant possibly vote, but could still be the target audience, and have decisions made on them where they get excluded because a hardcore base only want their game their way.
There are some fair points here, that the people involved in this stage of the project may not be representative of the wider game-playing public, but having read the forums for some time, there is clearly a large range of interests already represented here.

This is not about "me" or what I want - the intention is to try to establish what percentage of us actually want many of these things being mooted like careers, series etc. There might be a huge effort involved in something like a career mode (just to randomly pluck one game element out of the hat), which might not really translate to sales. What prompted this was that the meeting minutes seemed to be hugely ambitious but not necessarily focussed. It might not be possible, given time and resources, to set new benchmarks in all things.

Andrew Clark
22-03-2012, 03:52
Some of what was mentioned here in respect to rolling road for telemetry and Dyno as well as setup aides would really come off well. I think a big part of what the Sim Race Community uses to sway their overall opinion of a Sim Title is Is this something an actual race team might use for data collection and off track testing so these types of features along with a top notch Racing School feature are great ideas to impliment in game.

Evgeniy Neytman
22-03-2012, 05:23
Multiplayer

well, i think devs must concentrate on 2 things:

1. Anti-cheat system
2. Dedicated server flexibility. We all want to have an option to set rolling/standing stars, to make a custom weather map, to adjust reconnasaince and formation laps, all the times betweem the sessions, different qual rules and so on. This will make the game really flexible for leagues.


p.s. we are atill not able to make a fault start(

Ryzza5
22-03-2012, 05:44
http://forum.wmdportal.com/funds.php

^ I'm wondering what happened on 16/3?

mimaximax
22-03-2012, 06:01
Here are a couple of idea I got.


Licencing issues :

- We can add slightly faked cars when a racing serie is licensed but a particular brand isn't. It will gives players the impression that all the variety of cars the serie has to offer is there. If the design modifications remain subtle enough, the teams liveries will definately do the trick. Moreover, the day we got the licence in, these highly anticipated cars will be done already. I remember that V8 Superstars game having fake Mercedes cars, before "Next Challenge" iteration getting the real ones. The bad sides : people criticizing it ; the "aura" of pCARS being "stained" in a way ; the release of a mod turning the fictionnal contents into actual ones (not sure everyone will consider it as a bad effect).


Career mode :

- We could implement a University debut into the racing world (http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?236-Licensing&p=91159&viewfull=1#post91159) as well as Formula Ford.

- Punctuals challenge opportunities, that let the player to skip some of the (boring ?) career steps ; a way to keep up with your friends' progression pace without downloading a game save. In the motorsport world, being in the right place, on the right time and/or knowing the right guy can mean greater driving opportunities. We could translate that into the game with something like : "Hey, Andy Garton talked me about you, saying you were a very promising driver. Would you mind having a test drive in our LMP2 prototype ? Beating his laptime is your chance to have a seat onboard". The player's friend list influencing quantity and types of these challenges.

- Punctuals challenge opportunities can also apply for grinding money by accepting advertissement challenges.

J Stenman
22-03-2012, 06:18
Can't believe they outed upgrades :S .. Very broad audience enjoy upgrading cars for personalization.. I think it should be put to a poll for many people to decide and not just 5 people or so :P
My thoughts exactly. Wouldn't having no upgrades make every racing series a spec series with exactly similar cars? Even with multiclass racing, there would only be similar cars in each class. I'd like a bit more variety please.

Evgeniy Neytman
22-03-2012, 06:28
Emm? GT1 have a lot of cars built according to one set of regulations.

J Stenman
22-03-2012, 07:19
Emm? GT1 have a lot of cars built according to one set of regulations.
Yes. I was thinking more about road going cars. If they can't be upgraded to a certain set level, most everybody would always just run "the fastest" car. For instance, in the Forza series, you have a set of car classes organized according to the cars' performance levels. With actual racing cars, the classes (GT1, GT2, formula 3, etc) are already there.

Mark Silcock
22-03-2012, 07:35
Nice meeting guys!

Please, for the love of god, no Gymkhana, DLC or in GAME!

Don't dismiss Gymkhana because of Ken Block. It has been around a lot longer than him and lots of people start racing in local Gymkhana events.

Dan Blamey
22-03-2012, 07:46
http://forum.wmdportal.com/funds.php

^ I'm wondering what happened on 16/3?

E.K became a senior manager x2 :)

Dan Blamey
22-03-2012, 07:49
Yes. I was thinking more about road going cars. If they can't be upgraded to a certain set level, most everybody would always just run "the fastest" car.

Doesn't that happen with upgrades anyway? Everyone just runs the best (fastest) 'upgraded' cars?

Simon Ashbourne
22-03-2012, 08:53
I had an idea for the X line for the game:

Driving on the edge of reality

...damn just googled it and there is a drinking & driving campaign film by this name, gutted!

I'll keep at it, gadnamit!

Simon Ashbourne
22-03-2012, 08:58
If we're talking about a virtual career, then surely the racing school should start with a virtual National B racing licence day with training, if you're going for simulation why do anything different to real life in the game?

Licencing opportunity?

J Stenman
22-03-2012, 09:52
Doesn't that happen with upgrades anyway? Everyone just runs the best (fastest) 'upgraded' cars?

Of course. Anyone interested in actually winning a race would do just that. However, if there were vehicle classes, one could upgrade a car to the top of the allowed class in different ways. Think "grip tune" vs. "speed tune". More importantly, cars could be upgraded to go race in a class higher than their "native" class. I think this would add variety to the races, and provide better entertainment.

Schadows
22-03-2012, 10:07
For Rally, I agree we need this as DLC if possible, but ultimately, it must also be available as stand alone game. Some people might want to only play rally and not track racing, and will be bothered to pay for a game from which they don't need 3/4 of the content.

I also agree that Drift is more of a bonus than a real feature. Personally, I won't miss it and would prefer the team to spend more time to perfect current series physics, weather system, cars, and tracks.

Licensing is a difficult issue. We might be able to get a pass-by on PC (thanks mod), but what about console ?

Evgeniy Neytman
22-03-2012, 10:21
I had an idea for the X line for the game:

Driving on the edge of reality

...damn just googled it and there is a drinking & driving campaign film by this name, gutted!

I'll keep at it, gadnamit!

pC.A.R.S.: On the edge of reality
pC.A.R.S.: On the edge
pC.A.R.S.: Makes it real
pC.A.R.S.: Feel the real
pC.A.R.S.: Get real
pC.A.R.S.: The spell of speed
pC.A.R.S.: On the edge of reality

Joeri Blootacker
22-03-2012, 10:21
Elevator Pitch:

"pCars, as real as you need it to be"



would edit ONE word :)

pCars, as real as you need to be
(left the "it" out)

have to admit, really super promo line from Pierre !

C3PO
22-03-2012, 10:39
"Motor racing is a beautiful thing. Welcome to our world."

Tim Foster
22-03-2012, 10:40
Here we go:

"pCars, reality comes second"

:rolleyes:

TonyR
22-03-2012, 10:49
Here we go:

"pCars, reality comes second"

:rolleyes:

"pCARS, your new reality"
"pCARS, your benchmark for reality"

Edit: C3PO, congratz for your 777 th post :D
In Germany you would have to buy us a drink for that "Schnaps number"

Simon Ashbourne
22-03-2012, 10:52
....motor racing is dangerous, feel the danger!

....imagination is no longer the limit, Project Cars!

....driving in the wheeltracks of legends!

....don't just drive it, live it, feel it

....does my bum look big in this? (joke!)

....come and have a go if you think you're fast enough! (this was a joke but I like it!)

For multiplayer why not have 2 online modes, career mode and open play? In career mode you race against others for career points in official race series, in open play you can race any car/track combo decided by the host? (as long as you have paid any DLC required!)

Remco Van Dijk
22-03-2012, 10:56
I think we should open a 'pCARS catch phrase' thread :rolleyes:

C3PO
22-03-2012, 11:19
I think we should open a 'pCARS catch phrase' thread :rolleyes:

Or welcome all the thoughts and contributions.

Remco Van Dijk
22-03-2012, 11:20
Or welcome all the thoughts and contributions.
We always do. But if we want to do something with them, I think we can do better than bury them in a Design Meeting Minutes thread ;)

StudeBakerAE86
22-03-2012, 11:24
puh... took me damn long to read the hole meeting... :) But it was good.

I really like the idea of Mobile/portable support. So youīre always and everywhere in contact with your team or read news or learn a track or something else.
As I was reading this, I thought, maybe we could use the mobile for something else? Maybe as mirror or to show times, trackmap... if itīs possible to stream videodata to this devices... I donīt know if itīs possible or even usefull.

Iīm happy with the rest of the discuesed topics. Good work.

vicdavery
22-03-2012, 11:47
Regarding career start points: could we use the "road" based tracks? i.e. they have the feeling of informal (aka illegal) meets using standard production cars. You could get talent-scouted from there.

I know this is a little "un-simulation", but I've trying to work out how you could use real roads beyond hill-climb events.

Zappatime
22-03-2012, 12:36
I think Rallycross would be an interesting way of indirectly moving development forward for any proposed Rally DLC. There would be a huge fun element in Rallycross, I seem to remember a lot of rallycross cars were/are one-off monsters or stuff knocked up in a garage by an enthusiast, or simply old bangers at the lower levels - perhaps little or no licensing needed on vehicle models to create a stock of vehicles. A 'fun' rallycross series, but with underlying serious physics and handling modelling, could be used to develop and hone the Rally physics for a future DLC release.

FLX81
22-03-2012, 12:56
My general thoughts:

- I m strongly against any form of teasers in the base game. Imho the base game should be as focused as possible and cut off any unnecessary slack - anybody that played GT5 will know what I mean here. Anything in the base game should have a dedicated purpose and not be just there cause we have it and we thought it would be kinda cool to include it though you cant really use it anywhere and bahwahwah.

- For the country roads: I would love to see a dedicated hillclimb DLC with at least 5 open roads, a set of special cars and events. A dedicated career branch, an expansion pack. We could still give away Cali & Riviera as free DLC so who wants to do so can use them for free driving around and quick races but if you want to have the hillclimb career events there, they are part of the Hillclimb DLC.

- On DLC generally, I d love to see cars/tracks individually as microtransactions as well as full expansion packs including cars, tracks and career events. Namely Historic F1 (1968, 1977, 1986 with 3-5 cars and tracks per year), Historic GTs (group 4/5, 1970 trans am), Historic touring car (1990 DTM, 1960s BTCC), Hillclimb, Drag Racing, Drift - and maybe Rallycross as a bridge between Project Cars and Project Rally. Too much? :p

- The rolling road idea is pure awesome! Hooray for whoeversuggestedit! :D

- About upgrades, I think it will feel very strange to race stock production cars in cup races. So we either need a race mod option like in GT5 or all production cars should come race equipped from the start.

- I think there should be the following game modes, similar as in FIFA or other sport games:
-> Quick Race: A single race where you can set all parameters you want
-> Season: One full season in a series you choose with the car you want and some settable parameters (difficulty, race length etc)
-> Career mode: A full fledged, calender-based dynamic simulation of a race drivers career, from beginning to open end
-> Special Events which are periodically updated (like the new weekly competitions)
-> Scenario Mode where you can replay certain thrilling situations, maybe those could be unlockable but also part of the career
-> Multiplayer

Career Mode:

- Like I wrote above, scenarios could be part of the career, too. Think of invitational races where you enter the cockpit at a certain moment in the race as the 3rd driver and you have to accomplish something before your stint is over. Or testing, promo events, etc. Or you could have certain achievements trigger an unlocking, like the first time you take Eau Rouge full throttle in whatever car you unlock a scenario event where you have to do so in the bitchiest, hardest to control car in the game to get an accomplishment.

- Calender based, see my posts in the career mode thread. FIFA and Virtua Tennis could be worthwile sources for inspiration here. Basically you progress week for week in a virtual calender and have a set of events to choose from each week (your main championship, invitational races, training, testing etc).

- I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Dans idea of a hardcore career mode. :a15: Not only are those hardcore modii always great fun in every game that has it, its also immensely satisfying to master them. And racing is one of the most cruel and punishing venues in the world, errors almost certainly lead to disaster - but there is almost no game which really transports that feeling. So I would route for a 4th difficulty level - easy, medium, hard and hardcore - where every action you take has consequences. You crash out? Bummer, race over. You switch down 3 gears at once and blow the engine to pieces? See you next weekend, buddy - IF you can afford a new motor or your team manager doesnt kick you out. You need a new front bumper? That will be 300 quid, thanks. Oh you need fuel for racing, too? Hmm, current rate is 1.50€ a litre I think. And so on. Basically I have this one thought in my head that sounds like pure win to me:

Lets make pCARS the Dark Souls of racing simulations! :a04:

Justin Cruze
22-03-2012, 13:13
I would love to see a scenario mode but it should be separate from the career mode imo.

James Brooks
22-03-2012, 13:32
The rolling road idea is pure awesome! Hooray for linfosoma! :D



i think you should re-read who suggested it :p

FLX81
22-03-2012, 13:47
Ok ok, edited! Quite hard to remember everything correctly from half a bible. :o

mimaximax
22-03-2012, 16:26
A scenario mode could be unlocked after finishing career mode. Like a bonus, a second SP mode. There even may be multiple scenario mode to unlock relatively to the amount of gold, silver, bronze medals you won. Maybe one of the scenario mode could be going through the racing career path of a famous driver.

buzzin_nice
22-03-2012, 21:23
whats the point of rolling roads if there is no upgrades or tuning parts? everyone will just tweak their settings to find the best outcome and then we'll all get the same results. also tuning is a big ask i can appreciate but for me it was the reason i purchased all the gran tourismo's. maybe later as dlc or add-ons as a last resort?

Ryzza5
22-03-2012, 22:29
Invitations to do one stint mid-race with required positional improvements sounds like an awesome idea (better than excessively long endurance races in GT5 imo). Of course, 24hr races should be possible for those who want them, but not a required SP career event.

Darren McKenna
22-03-2012, 22:54
Interesting read guys, I see a reference to iRacing a few times which is good IMO. One thing that I did not read about that should be addressed. In iRacing you get penalized for bad driving, as in your license takes a hit. You need to drive good to get higher licenses. I am not saying pCARS should do the same but every race game has online ram rods that wrecks a good race. If pCARS implemented some type of penalty for poor driving it would make online racing fun. This is where games like GT5 and Forza 4 fail.

ermo
22-03-2012, 23:14
- I support the idea of production cars with predefined kits/classes:
-- For each kit, you actually have a new car from a car definition file point of view: Bespoke engine file, bespoke sound configuration, but sharing several assets like with the Atoms (i.e. no upgrade UI or car rating).
-- For example, you could very well have several kit 'stages' of e.g. the Paruscha Crocodile:
--- Stock (some people apparently want this, and with the country road feature, it would have a certain NFS or Test Drive flair); e.g. the lightweight, driver focused Paruscha Crocodile R w/3.4L Flat-6
--- TrackDay/RoadWorthy/Stage1 (includes stickier road tires, complete stage 1 engine upgrade package, adjustable suspension, appropriate body kit/lowering) for simple hotlapping pleasure or trackday settings; e.g. the Paruscha Crocodile GT3 RS w/3.8L Flat-6
--- Cup/Race (production-based, stripped out, roll-cage, race tuned, race tyres, different model cars are adjusted to be equal within the class); e.g. Paruscha Crocodile GT2 (GT2 class), Paruscha Crocodile GT3 R (GT3 class), Paruscha Crocodile GT3 RSR Cup (single make cup)
-- It would also set the expectation that this game is about the driving and not about tinkering with upgrades per se, even if a progression from stock to a full-on race/works version of a specific car is still present.

- As part of the challenges idea, it's not hard to imagine basic AutoX courses or (optionally) Ghymkhana challenges. Depending on your (SMS) level of comfort with this, the idea of user-contributed AutoX courses and (Ghymkhana) challenges might rally (heh) the community to create and offer extra content. Sort of like taking the Source engine and offering a Garry's mod type of sandbox for people to do crazy stuff with. You could choose to offer this creative functionality as (cheap-ish) DLC, but allow all owners the ability to consume these scenarios. I bet that the larger (car culture) audience would jump on this. Whether the predefined setting is a docks style industrial area, the test track or a simple parking lot doesn't matter. This ties into the "whatever you want it to be" tag line. It also comes at no cost, licensing wise.

Ryzza5
22-03-2012, 23:44
Maybe just a simple Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3 upgrade set for production cars only?

If an iRacing-style license/penalty system is to be used online I hope it's optional. I'm not a bad driver but mistakes do happen occasionally, and I'd rather this be saved for the elite drivers.

netrobot
23-03-2012, 11:23
Do you think about dedicated server (i.e. for LAN-parties)? LANs are also good for marketing.

Machinaea
23-03-2012, 12:36
Dedicated servers are planned/coming soon-ish, check the multiplayer thread.

KAMPFBIBER81
23-03-2012, 12:41
Do you think about dedicated server (i.e. for LAN-parties)? LANs are also good for marketing.

After my experiance from my last LAN-party (Steam destroys everything... Thanks trackmania for a few hours of fun with my FPS-friends) I was thinking about some LAN-mode Demo. A demo with a few cars and tracks that can be distributed during a LAN party from a game owner to his friends that is usable for a few days (Only on LAN). Would be quite a nice feature.

miagi
09-05-2012, 16:35
About RallyCross
I think this is a nice outsider perspective on it.
http://youtu.be/LZGSjngXY-k?t=9m8s
http://youtu.be/UKREDwf_mNE

MikeyTT
21-08-2013, 15:02
...Racing reborn
...Racing redefined
...Racing rewritten
...When racing evolved (when not where - my personal fave)
...Racing rehashed ;-)
Disclaimer: Creativity isn't my strong suite ;-)

For me the biggest frustration with other games is that the cars and tracks are generally locked at the start. Please don't do this. For career mode, that's fine you unlock to progress, but for those that just want to jump into a race (online or local), or a TT then allow all cars and all tracks from the start.

For the series modes, then there needs to be other cars to choose from in that series. DTM for example has the Audi/Merc/BMW (+ others). To give it the reality element there has to be a wide choice of start car models, even if we can't secure full licenses for them all.

As for "hardcore career" mention previously (sorry can't find the post now), I think it's a superb idea to have the danger element. Always crashing cars will leave you as a parriah without a drive, the big crash may destroy your racing career. Needs to be carefully monitored/considered tho, as you will get trolls wanting to ruin peoples hard fought statuses.

Would the career mode just be for racing? What about team management or lead engineer? I could imagine that there would be those that would excel in the management side (like football manager) and not necessarily be successful racers (limited talent or time to set-up cars to win regularly). Or leave your racing career behind and move to team management or lead engineer?

**Edit:...When racing just got real

Yoran
26-08-2013, 02:39
I see a lot of post asking for DLC but I think we need to go carefully, have little, a little more expensive, but very complete.
Much (too much?) Games adopts selling dlc, and often sell some content.
From a point of view "consumer" method is wearing the issue and know how much costs the "complete" game .
More game ( and the concurrent of auto simulation rushes in this model ) want to optimise budget with more DLC by micro payment ... and the consumer never see the end .
A different ( old ) approach with a good game , and very good extension in limited number , this methode can be seduce more potential buyer who do not appreciate the many games that looks pump money.

Patrick Kulinski
26-08-2013, 16:27
As this thread has popped up again, may I ask whether there's any meeting in sight?

Bruno Alexandre
26-08-2013, 18:01
Friday at the local pub, Tom is going to pay burgers and beer to everyone.

Patrick Kulinski
27-08-2013, 16:20
Okay Chef :p