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View Full Version : Patch Build 108 Available Now (to all member levels)



Andy Garton
05-12-2011, 15:01
Hi all,

As discussed elsewhere we've decided to make some updates to the Caterham to make it more driveable for the Eurogamer competition. We appreciate a change during the competition isn't ideal but the feedback has been fairly overwhelming that something needed to be done (with particular regard to lack of grip/higher speed oversteer/straight line instability).

The patch can be applied to your 106 (or 107) build installation as is. It does contain other fixes (see the build change log thread) as well. Please note that the default setup for the Caterham has been significantly adjusted so you'll need to create a new setup if you've already created your own with 106 or 107 (assuming you want to pick up our changes of course).

Enjoy!

Alex Dieckmann
05-12-2011, 15:36
Thanks for the patch!

IMO it's clearly more driveable now. More like the LX6 in LFS, so good for me :)

Ross Siggers
05-12-2011, 16:05
Sounds good, I'll give it a go :) Thanks!

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 16:15
Ehhhmmm....the worst physics ever...

Ross Siggers
05-12-2011, 16:16
`<snip>

Don't worry, issue on my end :)

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 16:20
And why after 3 2 1 my back of the car jumps?:D

Also the times are not recording.

Pokoritel Kuvetov
05-12-2011, 16:22
Ehhhmmm....the worst physics ever...

Agree

Rob Prange
05-12-2011, 16:23
Ehhhmmm....the worst physics ever...

How about some more constructive feedback? What feels wrong and why? :)

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 16:27
How about some more constructive feedback? What feels wrong and why? :)

Well:

1. This version has a bug with rear suspension - with every setup after going to manual cotrol the back of the car jumps (you can even spin!)
2. You just tried to reduce understeer buy making the rear a lot a lot stronger - and we lost grip
3. Too much front grip - combinied with 2 and terrible input lag makes the car....ahhm...this wil be impolite:)

The previous version was not great, but reasoble. I can give u my setups screeen....but now this is undrivable.

Ross Siggers
05-12-2011, 16:36
The car jumped for me in the last build, I could still get a decent run out of the corner.

Micas
05-12-2011, 16:39
It's so much worse that lap times are lower..

And the times are recording.. it's only been posted about a hundred times that it can take up to 10 minutes for the time to get posted.

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 16:40
The main issue is that noe the car jumps))) MB too fast rear dumpers, need to check.

Lukas Macedo
05-12-2011, 16:51
I am having a different experience.
The car now has a better turn in and it became more predictable with the default setup.
I also didn't have the jump bug here.
So IMO, it was a positive change. Thanks.

Johan Sundkvist
05-12-2011, 16:52
I am a bit suprised to see that some are having input lag in the new builds.. Is this a known bug or just related to bad frame rates?

Paul Beugelsdijk
05-12-2011, 16:53
I agree with Lukas here, to me its much more fun to drive.. its still tricky and at slow speed a little unpredictable, but it totally changed the experience for me doing a lap round the track!

jespergb
05-12-2011, 17:02
Is it still possible to cut heavy in the double chikane?

Sebastalona
05-12-2011, 17:04
Car does feel better now but still some work on the FFB, bumps feel to notchy and lack fidelity of say the Gumpert now when it hits bumps. But deffo a better setup and the car is now more direct and informative. Can't wait to try later builds of it when it has that fidelity

krivjur
05-12-2011, 17:06
I am a bit suprised to see that some are having input lag in the new builds.. Is this a known bug or just related to bad frame rates?

I don't think they have finished their code overhaul yet. Even if we disregard frame rate related issues, we still have only 30Hz polling rate. Normal should be at least 60Hz, so there's definitely something to improve. It's not so easy to say if the impression of input lag is from car physics, threading issues, polling rate. They all have some effect and we can only compare when something gets fixed or improved.

http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?1256-Collated-feedback-from-The-St...-Ben-Collins.&p=18716&viewfull=1#post18716



The good news is we've already identified an issue with our input and physics modelling which should improve the feedback from the tyres for braking and sliding. Right now although we run the physics simulation 360 times a second, we aren't sampling the input from the steering wheels enough concurrently at the same rate (so we only end up utilising 30 hz worth of steering feedback). With our planned changes the feedback you get from the FFB will be much improved and should move us a step closer to the simulation model we all want.

smartin13
05-12-2011, 17:07
big improvement .its much faster and better to control now.

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 17:10
So the bump bug is setup related - the car always jumps when rear ride height is lower than 0.14. Always. I`ve made a clean instsll of 106 and then a patch. Nothing changed.
As i see that not all people have a jump bug, i can guess that some of them installed the build over 107. I dont have another explanation of this.

Srtting rear RH to 0.14 makes all ok, seems like not all of us have the problem.

Johan Sundkvist
05-12-2011, 17:15
I don't think they have finished their code overhaul yet. Even if we disregard frame rate related issues, we still have only 30Hz polling rate. Normal should be at least 60Hz, so there's definitely something to improve. It's not so easy to say if the impression of input lag is from car physics, threading issues, polling rate. They all have some effect and we can only compare when something gets fixed or improved.

http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?1256-Collated-feedback-from-The-St...-Ben-Collins.&p=18716&viewfull=1#post18716

Isn't that just related to the FFB sampling rate? Or am im missunderstanding the issue?

Andy Garton
05-12-2011, 17:18
So the bump bug is setup related - the car always jumps when rear ride height is lower than 0.14. Always. I`ve made a clean instsll of 106 and then a patch. Nothing changed.
As i see that not all people have a jump bug, i can guess that some of them installed the build over 107. I dont have another explanation of this.
Did you create a new setup as suggested? Setups are stored in your player profile (and so not removed by an uninstall).

sic_kapkan
05-12-2011, 17:37
I`ve made a clean instsll of 106 and then a patch.
for clean uninstall need delete "CARS" folder in my docs too, after that it will be clean install

Craig Martin
05-12-2011, 17:38
er, so where's the on-screen timer?

DreamWeaver
05-12-2011, 17:41
World rank seems to not get updated.

Overall, the car is now really fun to drive!

Barnestah
05-12-2011, 17:42
Massive improvement on Caterham on tracks such as Spa as my machine can handle that. But my frame rates on Connection Hill must be around the 10-12fps or worse on lowest settings. Great fun to drive the Caterham now Tho :) WaHOOOOO!!!

BloodyJesus
05-12-2011, 17:43
I agree with Lukas here, to me its much more fun to drive.. its still tricky and at slow speed a little unpredictable, but it totally changed the experience for me doing a lap round the track!

This

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 17:49
Hmmm... i can feel the delay between the input and the game action. A real big massive delay. Looks like it is performance dependent, but i have 60FPS.

Ross Siggers
05-12-2011, 17:52
Actually, I shouldn't have snipped my post earlier. The game slows down hugely at the countdown, it shows a high framerate when it's actually 2-3fps. Happens on both the event and in time trial, at watkins, somewhere around the first corner/top of the straight, suddenly everything smooths out, plain sailing from there. All subsequent runs through that corner are smooth.

Just an fyi, the time I set about 40 minutes ago just went up. So, don't panic people :P

Tony Rickard
05-12-2011, 18:03
Hmmm... i can feel the delay between the input and the game action. A real big massive delay. Looks like it is performance dependent, but i have 60FPS.Are you using vsync? This cause huge lag for me with any sim.

I find just the same as iRacing with pCars - low frame rates cause lag, vsync causes lag. iRacing needs well over 100 fps, pCars needs above 50. Vsync is evil for me!

Tony Rickard
05-12-2011, 18:05
Caterham feels a hoot to drive, much more fluid now, although it does feel quite soft.

krivjur
05-12-2011, 18:10
Isn't that just related to the FFB sampling rate? Or am im missunderstanding the issue?


Right now although we run the physics simulation 360 times a second, we aren't sampling the input from the steering wheels enough concurrently at the same rate (so we only end up utilising 30 hz worth of steering feedback).

That to me sounds like the wheel position isn't sampled fast enough. FFB is an output for me. They probably calculate / send FFB commands at same rate, could be higher as well, but doesn't do much good when your physical input is lagged behind.

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 18:10
Tested with Spa - 120FPS and no lag....maybe just a very little that you can`t notice. V-sync of course always off.

My system is Q6600 at 3.2 Ghz, and Radeon 4870 with 1gb, and it`s not enough. Incredible.

krivjur
05-12-2011, 18:20
I had E8500 and HD 4870 512MB, not enough for this game. The Quad probably fares bit better on input lag though.

Do you have video of the rear jumping issue on Caterham? I run F 0.17 R 0.16 ride heights and didn't notice an issue.

DreamWeaver
05-12-2011, 18:22
Something fishy is going on.

I installed the 1.08 update and the R500 felt great. Best laptime was 1:14.8XX. And I could drive constant low 1:150XX times.
But, the eurogamer list didn't get updated with my time. Although, my personal best in normal TimeTrial was recorded and is in the world rank list.

So I decided to uninstall everything, deleted my pcars profile, reinstalled 1.06 and 1.08.
I entered the competition and noticed different values for the default setup than with the previous 1.08 version. Anyway, edited my setup, got to the track and immediately the car felt different and worse than before.
I entered the setup screen again and the values were again different. Now with the setup as I had it after the first installation of 1.08 it still feels not as good as before. The car was so fun to drive but now it is more to the old feeling. And my laptimes are over half a second slower.

I don't know. I don't have much confidence in the whole setup thing. How much times should I reinstall cars?

Slawomir Wiszczor
05-12-2011, 18:23
To all of you having problems with input lag, did you try to change number of pre-rendered frames to zero in nVidia panel? I had set up 9 and changed to 0 and now I don't have any input lag at all. I don't know if you can do that in ATi Catalyst.

speed1
05-12-2011, 18:26
Only with RadeonPro for ATI.

Jason Ganz
05-12-2011, 18:26
1:20.2 with the new patch on keyboard. Patch lopped 1.4 seconds off my fastest 106 time (and I hope to get under 1:20 or even 1:19 with a little tweaking).

Jason

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 18:27
I had E8500 and HD 4870 512MB, not enough for this game. The Quad probably fares bit better on input lag though.

Do you have video of the rear jumping issue on Caterham? I run F 0.17 R 0.16 ride heights and didn't notice an issue.

You will have that issue if you set 0.13 and lower, at 0.08 thats a big lol

krivjur
05-12-2011, 18:27
On AMD you need to do that from 3rd party app as Catalyst Center doesn't have the Flip queue setting.

The normal time trial laps don't count on the Eurogamer competition, you need to enter the track through the Event button.


You will have that issue if you set 0.13 and lower, at 0.08 thats a big lol
Hmm, I thought you had issue because you ran very low ride heights. The numbers are inverse AFAIK. I think I had some issues on 106 when I went overboard and raised one end, while other was lowest.

Goran Johansson
05-12-2011, 18:29
I dont like the Caterham at all now the 106 was better then 108. the car is very oversteer so i made it harder in the front and the car starts to lift the inner front wheel but still oversteering??. this was a big step backwards in car physics.
and the setup is so strange it feels like the rear suspension of the car is welded. and if you have the car under 12 then you crash in the start.

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 18:30
On AMD you need to do that from 3rd party app as Catalyst Center doesn't have the Flip queue setting.

The normal time trial laps don't count on the Eurogamer competition, you need to enter the track through the Event button.


Hmm, I thought you had issue because you ran very low ride heights. The numbers are inverse AFAIK. I think I had some issues on 106 when I went overboard and raised one end, while other was lowest.

So 0.08 is higher than 0.17? LOL

Craig Martin
05-12-2011, 18:33
No, seriously, where's the bloody on-screen timer??? :)
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5663/pcars2011120519281721.png

oops, spotted that HUD was turned off in the menu, DOH!!! :a11:

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 18:36
Noticed a bug - if you select a car (let it be Formula B) and then load a track in quick mode , and then you try to enter the time event mode with caterham and create a new set, it will create a Formula B set...

krivjur
05-12-2011, 18:37
So 0.08 is higher than 0.17? LOL
Yea, I checked the telemetry screen then and it was obivious for me the other end was getting raised.
I tested a low number (left) for rear now lol. Rear explodes into air when AI control ends.

About the setup load bug, on 106 you could unlock some of the setup tuning for Caterham. Caster, Brake press, Decel Lock, Individual gears. I found out this on Sunday but I suspected they might open up the setup on the patch so it wouldn't matter.

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 18:46
Hmmm, but with 0.08 i`m touching the ground and with 0.14 i`m not...

krivjur
05-12-2011, 18:53
Hmmm, but with 0.08 i`m touching the ground and with 0.14 i`m not...
Are you sure you're looking the car after AI control has ended? I tried Front RH to 0.05, rear 0.16. When AI control ends, the front jumps up a lot, then it stabilizes but front is graphically higher than rear even in downhill section.

DreamWeaver
05-12-2011, 18:59
So, I am back below 1:15 but my laptime is still not in the eurogamer rank. And when I click on "find me" I am not there either.

I know about the 10 minutes, but it is now over 20 min. ago.

BTW, when I enter the hotlap the rear of the R500 goes airborne right after I can control the car. It's like the rear drives over a very big stone edge.

jomardi
05-12-2011, 19:01
i hope next PATCH or BUILD not forget fixed F86.
p.s. now Caterham is tooooo much easy to drive! as modern super car lol

Ricxs
05-12-2011, 19:03
I'm now 2 seconds quicker as the Caterham is more predictable to drive. You have still got to be very smooth with the steering for the handling to be more stable. The suspension is super soft as others stated the front lifts up and down under load. It's great fun to drive but not sure still how realistic it is though.

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 19:07
So, with the setup the new R500 is better.

Tony Rickard
05-12-2011, 19:14
So, I am back below 1:15 but my laptime is still not in the eurogamer rank. And when I click on "find me" I am not there either.I can see you :) 1:14.827 currently third

Evgeniy Neytman
05-12-2011, 19:21
Well, now 1st:) Going to try new Catalyst...

krivjur
05-12-2011, 19:21
Ok here's video of the RH issue, values are from car setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb7jYo9H6lY

speed1
05-12-2011, 19:38
:D :D :D Lowrider

sic_kapkan
05-12-2011, 19:54
push the button :)

DCLXVI
06-12-2011, 10:01
Noticed a bug - if you select a car (let it be Formula B) and then load a track in quick mode , and then you try to enter the time event mode with caterham and create a new set, it will create a Formula B set...
Yes I think I also mentionned that problem somewhere.


For the jumping cars when ride is too low :
106:

108:



Overall some things are better than before for the Caterham, but some things are no longer good.
I'l try to explain :
The exagerated instability and swerving on power is gone so that is good, but now it seems the car will never loose grip. It feels almost like drifting all the time without possibility to loose the rear when flatting the power pedal.
I don't know the car does not feel connected it feels to floaty all the time. But maybe that's due to missing FFB in the center of the wheel.

Andy Garton
06-12-2011, 10:04
The car is set up very soft now, it's true - too soft for how I personally like a car to be set up and probably softer than the real car's initial factory settings. It's easily fixed in the setup though - the overwhelming feedback was to make the default setup easier to drive, and the softer suspension helps achieve that.

And yes the softer setup does exaggerate the issues when transferring from AI control in TT mode - this will be fixed in time, and there will also be an option not to skip the outlap (i.e. you start in the garage).

Lukas Macedo
06-12-2011, 10:10
I like the option to not skip the outlap.

DCLXVI
06-12-2011, 10:35
Ok thanks for the feedback Andy.

I read now my post and it seems negative (an I forgot to upload the videos to youtube, but I think you guys know about that issue so... no need)

I think overall the changes to the Caterham as positive though, It's a bit less frustatting and you can have some fun :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXzU2hkONQY

WallyM
06-12-2011, 10:38
The car is definitely easier to drive, but the FFB is driving me nuts. If I have the FFB strength around 60, all the FFB jolts feel like I am driving offroad over boulders, with all the bumps and jerks on the wheel. If I then reduce the FFB strength to something like 40, the jolts feel better, but then the steering feel is so light I feel like I'm driving on ice. I've tried turning off the various FFB components via the F1 menu (like rumblestrip, jolts etc), but the bumpy feeling remains. My DFGT FFB strength in the control panel is 100%. It is making it very hard for me to get any kind of feel out of the car. I am just fighting the steering, and any kind of smooth steering inputs in corner entry just about feel impossible.

Big Ron
06-12-2011, 10:44
Wow, so I am really impressed by the patch. The Caterham handling and physics now is awesome. It feels nearly better than in Gran Tursimo. Well done SMS, this is great. Now the Caterham behaves as you would expect without sliding on straights. Without a doubt the best car so far in pCARS. Only the behaviour of the Leonus can compete.

I am curious, what the new physics will do with the other cars.

krivjur
06-12-2011, 12:39
The car is definitely easier to drive, but the FFB is driving me nuts. If I have the FFB strength around 60, all the FFB jolts feel like I am driving offroad over boulders, with all the bumps and jerks on the wheel. If I then reduce the FFB strength to something like 40, the jolts feel better, but then the steering feel is so light I feel like I'm driving on ice. I've tried turning off the various FFB components via the F1 menu (like rumblestrip, jolts etc), but the bumpy feeling remains. My DFGT FFB strength in the control panel is 100%. It is making it very hard for me to get any kind of feel out of the car. I am just fighting the steering, and any kind of smooth steering inputs in corner entry just about feel impossible.
Yeah, I've just gone low on FFB strength. It still has slight tendency to oscillate on me, but much more manageable than in 106. Just have to accept the numbness of the FFB at this point.

Although I like Andy's post, I disagree on that the softness can be fixed on setup completely. I used to run 48K rear springs in 106, now in 108 32K is max. You can't really go stiffening the front when rear is still so soft. Ended up raising rear a bit and stiffening RARB, still not happy on the feel though and need to work on the front somehow.

Casey Ringley
06-12-2011, 14:08
Although I like Andy's post, I disagree on that the softness can be fixed on setup completely. I used to run 48K rear springs in 106, now in 108 32K is max. You can't really go stiffening the front when rear is still so soft. Ended up raising rear a bit and stiffening RARB, still not happy on the feel though and need to work on the front somehow.

FYI, there was a hidden modifier in the 106 physics for this car which multiplied spring rates by 0.75x, so the 48N/mm springs from that build were really only 36N/mm wheel rate. The numbers are now what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

krivjur
06-12-2011, 14:56
Thanks, maybe I need to go back to 106 to feel how it was. It seems making false statements brings out more info, so I shall continue. :)

Edit: Didn't try back on 106 yet, but I maxed out springs now, FARB to 25K, some more front pressure. Feels better and more consistent lap times for me (=faster).

Kyle Williams
06-12-2011, 18:36
My time on the caterham challange leaderboard hasn't updated in over an hour now still shows my best as a 17.0 when i did a 14.0 an hour or more ago.

Big Ron
06-12-2011, 19:41
Restart the game.

AProst
07-12-2011, 22:32
Congratz SMS for Caterham physics in build 108!

In build 106 it was a lot too hard driving and frustrating.

For me in build 108, physics wise it's a 10 out of 10.

I think it's the first time I really took pleasure driving in pCars.

You can push the Caterham, it feels alive but controllable. You can lift oversteer and power oversteer. You can drift and recover without loosing control. :D

Very nice, no need to go more hardcore.

Really on the good road for me. :cool:

philmcphil
08-12-2011, 09:18
How about some more constructive feedback? What feels wrong and why? :)

Hi Rob,

i gave my feedback regarding physics . I think the cars (for the moment , i know) have one big , bad thing . Iīs the moment when the car start "slidding" on the exit of a curve , the back wheel start to spin (normal) but when you start to against pointing the back of the car go to the other side , so you against pointing again ....But if you keep accelerating you canīt put the car straight and keep rolling . Itīs like to have a "big weight " on the back of the car . Itīlike ti try to go fast with a car and a big caravan . (i hope you understand , lol)

Iīm not a pro driver , but i have a small experience taking curve "drifting" , that īs why i take the time to give my point of view.

Thanks.

yony258
11-12-2011, 13:56
Can't download Build 108 patch (already have 106), Is there a way to fix it?

Roger Prynne
11-12-2011, 14:35
Can't download Build 108 patch (already have 106), Is there a way to fix it?

More information please (Can't download?)

Paul Beugelsdijk
11-12-2011, 14:38
The next build is already out to download, making build 106 or patch 108 not necessary anymore :)

Vittorio Rapa
11-12-2011, 14:45
Junior members are still using the Build 106 + Patch 108 ... however i need more details, what do you mean with "Cannot download?" .. slow speed? Timeout? Your antivirus is deleting the file(s)?

yony258
11-12-2011, 15:14
When I press on the download button (Torrent or Http) it says cannot find the page (sort of HTTP 404 error)

Paul Beugelsdijk
11-12-2011, 15:22
Junior members are still using the Build 106 + Patch 108 ... however i need more details, what do you mean with "Cannot download?" .. slow speed? Timeout? Your antivirus is deleting the file(s)?

Ah yeah, offcourse.. my bad :)

Vittorio Rapa
11-12-2011, 19:07
When I press on the download button (Torrent or Http) it says cannot find the page (sort of HTTP 404 error)

Be sure to have configured your firewall correctly (or eventually turn it off just to download the build). As you may notice, the download links are using the port 81 (versus the standard HTTP port 80), this may explains your issue.

If you still have the problem, juse use the following links (only for Junior members):

http://server1.wmdportal.com/wmd/pCARS_0106_pre-alpha_PC-EXT.exe
http://server1.wmdportal.com/wmd/pCARS_0108_pre-alpha_PC-EXT_Patch.exe

yony258
11-12-2011, 21:00
Be sure to have configured your firewall correctly (or eventually turn it off just to download the build). As you may notice, the download links are using the port 81 (versus the standard HTTP port 80), this may explains your issue.

If you still have the problem, juse use the following links (only for Junior members):

http://server1.wmdportal.com/wmd/pCARS_0106_pre-alpha_PC-EXT.exe
http://server1.wmdportal.com/wmd/pCARS_0108_pre-alpha_PC-EXT_Patch.exe


Thank you very much, Solved.

Tacken
20-12-2011, 11:35
PCars runs under Wn XP SP3 ? because donīt run in my PC, Why?

Graine de Pilote
20-12-2011, 11:44
Yes it runs on Win XP SP3 in DX9.
Do you choose the DX9 shortcut?
What is your system configuration?